spawn raping and shooter detection systems

[Lynx]

HI Everyone
I been playing PR since .2 release back then people were trying to solve game play issues like spawn rape but now that we have fire bases and SL spawns have been removed (of which I don't approve of). Because of this spawn raping became easier and often necessary.

an example my squad came up against a bunker in BI Ming we had no engineers in our squad so we surrounded the bunker and sat and shot at the troops as they were spawning in the hopes that one of them would spawn as an engineer. after about 11 minutes of slaughtering and spawn raping we eventualy blew the bunker up and spawn raped 22 soldiers my squad had a good laugh but then we then declared this mod broken.

certainly I had fun but I kinda felt sorry for the enemy but we had no choice
but how to fix this?

fixed shot detection systems have become a common and reliable military and law enforcement tool.
while and are now increasingly vehicle mounted in iraq such as the boomerang 2
Vehicle-mounted Acoustic Sniper Detection System - Image 4 of 6 - gizmag Image Gallery
and most recent experamental types are soldier mounted and have been tested with high marks in Iraq notably the ears system
EARS - QinetiQ's Battle-Proven Sniper Detection Solution
my suggestion is this:

1: equip fire bases and bunkers with shot detection systems that would display enemy shooters on the map for 2-3 seconds when their shot hits or goes near the asset up to 140 meters (ya may want to scale it down to 50).
This would let the enemy team know their bunker is under fire and they may want to spawn elsewhere or perhaps run back to defend the bunker against an enemy squad

2: redesign the bunker so it's not a dull death box, perhaps add small sandbag walls connected to the bunker like so:
-[_]-

3: equip certain vehicles with mobile sniper detection systems such as up armored Humvees or apcs to armies which have them making the factions more distinct and adding a new element to gameplay dynamics. factions which do not employ mobile sniper detection systems should get other faction specific bonuses that i'll talk about later)

4: (optional) equip the ears shot detection system on any of the Commander/SL/sniper/spec ops soldiers
but this last one may be unbalanced

edit: future weapons has a long video detailing the military tech and how it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgsGoAl ... zilla:en-U

[fuzzhead]

we want to avoid gamey solutions to the problem.

Current solution that we are trying is taking much less damage to turn the bunker into a wreck, but ALOT more damage to detroy the bunker completely (as well as removing the decay timer of the wreck, so it will never disappear unless enemy destroys it on commander issues a demolition order)

So for example, instead of taking 4-5 Light AT rockets like it currently does, the bunker will take only 1 LAT rocket (of which every single infantry squad has the capacity of getting, and they SHOULD always have one when making an assault in the first place).

But once the bunker is down, it will take many many light AT rockets to completely destroy, so your better off waiting for engineer with C4 or just for the enemy to give up on the bunker and move it somewhere else.

We want to design the bunker so its less of a "defensive firing position" and more of a "rearm, repair and regroup position". The use of the sandbags and razorwire should be for the defense of an area, while the bunker is a regroup point that should be protected.

What may help with this is extending the range of which the sandbags and razorwire can be placed (will now be 200m from a bunker/firebase instead of 100m) as well as introducing new deployable 50cal MGs. We should also consider redesigning the current sandbag positions so that they are more useful and offer better protection.

[ostupidman]

Those systems are in deployment but in pretty limited quantities. IIRC PR is dedicated to representing the average overall units of the individual armies not all the special units that exist. Those systems are also defeated with a limited degree of acoustic know-how. For many years US and other snipers of the world have been taught the usufulness of firing past trees and other obstructions for noise decoy purposes. It is possible to fire at a target in such a way that the sound of the rifle is deflected by an object and from the targets perspective the sound originates from a different location that the shot was actually taken.

[Charity Case]

...my squad had a good laugh but then we then declared this mod broken.

Don't declare the mod broken, declare the players broken. If people are too clueless to stop spawning off a compromised bunker, then they deserve to be "raped". And, frankly, if you really felt that bad about it, you could have always pulled up global chat and typed "Opfor, be advised, we are currently raping your bunker in grid whatever whatever, please spawn at an alternate position, flank us, and destroy our squad."

[Outlawz7]

More sandbags would be nice

[Lynx]

fuzz, I respectfully disagree
I don't believe this is a gamey solution but first here's why I don't like the solution that is currently being experimented with:
1: all that shoveling of a flimsy bunker seems to not be worth it when the enemy would easily destroy it at long range with a lat
2 most importantly: the enemy can and will spawn rape as until he gets bored. added changes are a welcome addition but defenders are still at a major disadvantage because they do not have the initiative.


it's not gamey is an automated system which calls out direction and distance of the bullet's shooter. it also sends passes the contact info into the military network if an internet connection is available.

It would be much more realistic to have a voice coming out of a box in the bunker or Humvee and have an enemy location displayed on the map over our current situation of infinite kills that i can easily rack up.

the most important part is that you can know a bunker is under attack and you may choose to spawn elsewhere.

It would be also be nice to add it to Humvee to be more ambush survivable

oldstupid man: yes they sure have their weaknesses but at a shorter range of 50 meters i suspect they would be more accurate

charity: well I guess I'm just an evil b@sturd and I almost felt sorry for them. . . almost.

[Spec]

Really, its their fault. Its not that hard to tell your teammates that a bunker has been compromised, and its not that hard to read the chat, notice the warning(s) and stop spawning there. Problem solved. No need for super high tech special equipment.

[Threedroogs]

Don't declare the mod broken, declare the players broken. If people are too clueless to stop spawning off a compromised bunker, then they deserve to be "raped". And, frankly, if you really felt that bad about it, you could have always pulled up global chat and typed "Opfor, be advised, we are currently raping your bunker in grid whatever whatever, please spawn at an alternate position, flank us, and destroy our squad."

exactly! the mod aint broken...

and pointing out enemy positions like you suggest sounds like a horrible idea to me (good riddance to the bf2 spotting) . the stuff fuzzhead talked about sounds like it'll improve things in a much better way. SL spawn being removed was also one of the best improvements to the mod.

[Lynx]

Really, its their fault. Its not that hard to tell your teammates that a bunker has been compromised, and its not that hard to read the chat, notice the warning(s) and stop spawning there. Problem solved. No need for super high tech special equipment.

good point! it is easy, -but if i may ask you this
so when's the last time someone texted you about that?

we spend so much time staring at the center screen that it's hard to catch that text when it's outside of the tiny point int he center of our retna which is constantly taking stock of the cross hairs?

and there are lots of other reasons why most people don't catch text I do it as much as i can and surprise the little nooblets keep spawning and slaughtered... next time i put on a whole heap of spawn-rape on the enemy i'll text to everyone our location and position by the minute and they will spawn in by the droves because they think they can overwhelm us like braveheart then get cut down like the the final charge in the last samuri but hey if they do it again it might be fun for them, and who am I to stop them from getting their kicks from simultanius spawn then charge events ya know...
i changed my mind spawn rape is fun for both sides!
I remembered lots of times my squad leader issued kamakaze respawn-point defense! good times for all!

but seriously we should at least set no scope riflemen on full auto to give the respawners at least a slim chance (Yes i know it's been suggested but here's the twist:
anyone with a scopeless rifleman spawns on full auto to show that
A: scoped rifles are best on single shot and,
B: non scoped rifles are best used in closer distances in faster shot groupings
... maybe i should make a new thread for this... naw

[@bsurd]

if its so hard to read the text, handle it like this:

Tell it your SL, he tell it the Commander and in less then 10 sec all are informed about a enemy squad that camps or try to destroy a bunker/FB.

Now the commander can tell you what to do, defend it, spawn with your sq in main to take a truck and built a new one or or or...

i dont see there a problem at all. if i get raped @ a spawnpoint, next time i wake up @ another spawn...

[Duende]

Plz, don´t make the bunker easier to destroy... if there is some teamwork on the team, you don´t need to much to destroy it.
And prepared squads have an engineer.

[M.Warren]

What may help with this is extending the range of which the sandbags and razorwire can be placed (will now be 200m from a bunker/firebase instead of 100m) as well as introducing new deployable 50cal MGs. We should also consider redesigning the current sandbag positions so that they are more useful and offer better protection.

Does this mean that a support truck/supply crate will still have to be within 50 meters of the Bunker/Firebase while deploying sandbags, razorwire and AA emplacments?

Personally I wish that if after a Bunker/Firebase has been deployed, then you should be able to deploy razorwire and sandbags without needing to have the support truck/supply crates remain nearby. I can think of plenty of times where I wanted to deploy something 10 meters next to a Bunker/Firebase but the support truck/supply crate was 60 meters too far.

I'm also still trying to figure out why squad leaders can deploy sandbags, razorwire or Anti-Aircraft emplacements without the logistic consent of a commander. I found it rather annoying when I play on Al-Basrah as a commander and build a bunker, then some random SL proceeds to deploy sandbags and razorwire all over the place boxing us in without a commanders approval as long as a support truck/supply crates are nearby.

I mean honestly, why do people insist on putting those things all over the place? Is there not already 100 tons of built up dirt emplacements all around VCP to begin with? Boxing yourself into the VCP with your own deployables is silly, I think players seem to forget that all someone needs to do is spawn with an Ambusher kit and toss down 2 of the highly abundant I.E.D.'s and tear open a nice hole. If insurgents can penetrate the VCP with the British team having a bunker, scoped weapons and 200 yards of wide open terrain, there's obviously a problem with the player and/or tactics used. Not sure about everyone else, but I've defended VCP alone once with a kill/death ratio of 24/0 and to rub it in, I was using an engineer kit.

[.blend]

Sandbags would provide some sort of cover but its clear as day as to y noone bothers building them: They easily take as long to build as a bunker and get easily destroyed.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Sounds good Fuzz

1: all that shoveling of a flimsy bunker seems to not be worth it when the enemy would easily destroy it at long range with a lat

I think the point is that if they reach the bunker then you've allready lost it which does match your point about spawn killing being **** gameplay - it is.
To avoid HAT and LAT, put the bunker in an area with line of sight as short as possible.

The bunker should not be the reason why the area is secure but an icon or secondary benefit derived from your squad/teams control of an area

[fuzzhead]

I think the point is that if they reach the bunker then you've already lost it which does match your point about spawn killing being **** gameplay - it is.
To avoid HAT and LAT, put the bunker in an area with line of sight as short as possible.

The bunker should not be the reason why the area is secure but an icon or secondary benefit derived from your squad/teams control of an area

thank you sabre

Does this mean that a support truck/supply crate will still have to be within 50 meters of the Bunker/Firebase while deploying sandbags, razorwire and AA emplacments?

Yeap...

About the idiot SL placing in stupid places... yea it happens, but hopefully the infantry arent dumb enough to actually build it you can always destroy these bad placements by 50cal as well.

[SleepyHe4d]

Is it possible to just make knives do a load of damage to bunkers/firebases like they do to rallies or maybe allow shovels to damage enemy bunks or fbs so you can "take apart" a fortified enemy position in like 30 seconds? In real life if a squad came upon a fortified position it wouldn't take long to destroy the equipment and/or make the position useless.

Also would it be possible to not allow people to spawn on a spawn point if an enemy is within 10 meters of it?

[ostupidman]

Well I like the take down with shovel part, but not so much the not able to spawn Sleepy. I think that should be left up to the individual if they want to try and spawn or not.

[willgar]

Why not make the bunker like a mini flag. As in, when three enemy are within its radius for say 10 secs, the firebase is compromised and you cannot spawn there.

But when that happens, the map icon changes to give a visual warning that the bunker is under attack.