Suggestion for sniper class...

mrmong · Post by **mrmong** » 2006-03-11 20:47

lots more scope wobble

Ghost33 · Post by **Ghost33** » 2006-03-11 21:07

lonelyjew wrote:I'm pretty sure a sniper would be able to shoot accurately standing and while crouching at a pretty decent range. I meen, if my grandpa could hit a target at 50m away, with a pistol, 98 times out of 100, while shooting at with his left hand(not his primary), and while standing(yes, he did actually do this), I would say it's a pretty fair to assume a well trained sniper with a sniper rifle could shoot accurately at least up to 200m while standing our crouching. If he took a careful, well aimed shot, while prone he should techinically be able to hit a target at 1km or over. The only problem is the scope probably would make this shot near impossible. Also, the fog of war in BF2 would prevent this kind of shot.

So, if the sniper can't be made to shoot at his full potential, why even have him? The marksman class is a far better solution then having a true sniper class.

Totally agree.

and the shot on the hotel building w'machine gun to the Mosque, if a sniper can't hit that target kneeling then I will never play that class. A regular troop with a m-16 or Ak can hit that far more accuratly then.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-13 05:45

Hopefully the marksman class will have a rifle like this.

PsychoKillers · Post by **PsychoKillers** » 2006-03-14 15:46

Defineing long for me is to be able to take someone out from the mosque all the way to the dang powerplant in 1 shot. Snipers should be able to kill in 1 shot...Not 2. Chest and headshots should be instant kills and gut shots incompacitate people. Honestly the snipers suck in the .25 patch...The M24 cant hit anything...The bullet drop on the gun is so unrealistic. Please at 100 meters that bullet should still be able to hit teh center crosshair...Same with teh M4 and M16. We should be able to adjsut windage on the scope where we have to guess the range. The rangeing should go in incraments of 10 meters with a laser range finder availiable on teh scope.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-14 16:11

PsychoKillers wrote:Defineing long for me is to be able to take someone out from the mosque all the way to the dang powerplant in 1 shot. Snipers should be able to kill in 1 shot...Not 2. Chest and headshots should be instant kills and gut shots incompacitate people. Honestly the snipers suck in the .25 patch...The M24 cant hit anything...The bullet drop on the gun is so unrealistic. Please at 100 meters that bullet should still be able to hit teh center crosshair...Same with teh M4 and M16. We should be able to adjsut windage on the scope where we have to guess the range. The rangeing should go in incraments of 10 meters with a laser range finder availiable on teh scope.

yes that is to stop every guy playing in the mod being a sniper. The onyl way to stop ppl using the kit at the moment, is by blanceing it out so it sucks. If the sniper was as good as it was in real life, this mod would only be a 100% sniper war.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-14 19:59

I don't even know why we are still debating this. There is no longer going to be a sniper class after all, right? The class is essentially useless in prmm because the maps won't allow for realistic sniping scenarios. Now, the marksman class that has been talked about that would replace the sniper class is far more realistic. I think if you look at the MEC sniper how he is now, except without the ghillie suit and claymores, he would be a decent example of what a marksman would be. I only say this because a Dragunov seems like a fitting weapon for such a class.

rofflesnlols · Post by **rofflesnlols** » 2006-03-14 21:18

Yeah either the dragunov or the VSS ( the one from AA) i love that rifle!

Evil_Eye · Post by **Evil_Eye** » 2006-03-14 21:42

I think the sniper rifles should be more accurate. Today on Oman, i sniped a man 250m away, while lying down, and with my scope dead on a stationary guy, and missed.

Evil_Eye · Post by **Evil_Eye** » 2006-03-14 21:47

yes that is to stop every guy playing in the mod being a sniper. The onyl way to stop ppl using the kit at the moment, is by blanceing it out so it sucks. If the sniper was as good as it was in real life, this mod would only be a 100% sniper war.

In Close Quater maps it wouldnt be, but i agree that maps like Mashtuur would. Then again, it could be balanced by mortars etc. In vanilla the rifle is far more poweerfull and accurate -- but no eveyone uses it (prob. coz' they are busy raping with support...

). Still, the sniper should be better.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-14 21:56

Wanna hear something sad? I was prone with my Type 88 or whatever the Chinese sniper rifle is, and I was firing dead on at a standing USMC sniper. I miss about five shots, and he manages to hit me while standing. BTW, he was all the way across the river

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-14 23:22

Currently, sniper rifles still blow chunks, because nobodies coded them 'right'. it takes A LOT of fine tuning to do this right, and keep in mind PRMM is basically a gigantic beta of PR that is released so we dont have a bunch of rabid or discouraged fans. i think.

eventually, im sure the sniper rifles will be realistic and super deadly. i would not expect this untill we figure out class limitations though.

Evil_Eye · Post by **Evil_Eye** » 2006-03-15 18:55

I remember BFV had a scoped m16 or something- why not replace the sniper rifle with a gun like that or a silenced one.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-03-16 03:34

lonelyjew wrote:I'm pretty sure a sniper would be able to shoot accurately standing and while crouching at a pretty decent range. I meen, if my grandpa could hit a target at 50m away, with a pistol, 98 times out of 100, while shooting at with his left hand(not his primary), and while standing(yes, he did actually do this), I would say it's a pretty fair to assume a well trained sniper with a sniper rifle could shoot accurately at least up to 200m while standing our crouching. If he took a careful, well aimed shot, while prone he should techinically be able to hit a target at 1km or over. The only problem is the scope probably would make this shot near impossible. Also, the fog of war in BF2 would prevent this kind of shot.

So, if the sniper can't be made to shoot at his full potential, why even have him? The marksman class is a far better solution then having a true sniper class.

Why not give the sniper a team? So he doesn't have to do close quarters battle. He could have a spotter and another rifleman as his team. That's how our sniper section does it. The rifleman act as cover for the sniper and spotters. They can call out several targets at once. And the extra rifleman can carry spare ammo and extra claymores as well.

Anyways, if I can hit a target 300m standing up, a sniper can hit a target at a far greater distance standing up as well.

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-16 16:03

Anyways, if I can hit a target 300m standing up, a sniper can hit a target at a far greater distance standing up as well.

Depends what kind of optics the sniper has, rifles are hard to hold still while standing, with iron sights it doesn't show as much, but with a scope it would show much more.

I do agree though that the sniper needs some improvement, I'd recommend removing the claymores and lowering the ammo count, and even taking away their sidearm.

I know people will argue that this will remove all chance for the sniper to do CQB combat, BUT a sniper isn't supposed to do CQB combat.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-03-16 17:44

why would you take away his only security in the game right now? That's all he has for defense. If you do that, you have to attach a rifleman or something to him.

As for the optics on the sniper rifle, trust me, you can do it. I've done it. There are techniques for shooting while standing.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-16 20:53

Why would we want to take away his only security? Because it's being abused as a cheap weapon. I'm sick of running around a corner and then having hundreds of tiny balls of metal enter my body. Removal of claymores would force snipers to find good positions, as well

Zantetsuken · Post by **Zantetsuken** » 2006-03-17 05:58

but then that would create a need for much better maps and remakes of the ones EA/DICE supplied with vBF2

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-17 20:37

why would you take away his only security in the game right now? That's all he has for defense. If you do that, you have to attach a rifleman or something to him.

As for the optics on the sniper rifle, trust me, you can do it. I've done it. There are techniques for shooting while standing.

Oh my!

You mean the sniper would have to use teamwork?

Yes, it is possible (even easy for highly trained snipers) to hit accurately in an unsupported standing position, BUT you usually have to be still for longer than 1 second for this aim to happen.

This goes for ALL classes.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-03-17 22:06

That's the thing, a snipe isn't supposed to work in a team environment, except for his own team. You set hiim by himself to watch enemy movement and provide cover fire.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-03-17 23:23

First off, as far as sniper accuracy goes, you have to remember how big these maps are! I can already kill ANYTHING on 16 player gulf of oman with the SVD from the Crane at the MEC base. Just because you can hit something standing up from 300m away in real life doesnt mean it should be transfered to the game. maybe if we had maps that are 3,000 x 3,000m+ this would make sense but whats the biggest maps right now? maybe 1,500 x 1,500m? And that map is zatar wetlands 64 player. I dont think a sniper rifle that is accurate at 900 meters (which in game would be shooting from the aircraft carrier to the airstrip) should be as accurate as its realife counterpart.

so please people, separate gameplay vs. realism.... unless you want people killing you well beyond the BF2 fog of war (on zatar you cant see past 500 meters i think)

the M-24 in game should be accurate and able to hit targets 500 meters away accuratly (in prone), and have trouble hitting targets 600+ meters away (if you could see them?) i think you should be able to hit targets 300-400 meters away with somewhat ease crouching, and 100-200 meters standing. and all other guns should kind of follow that...

thats IF PR keeps an actual sniper class, and I think if your that far away from targets you dont need a claymore, you just need a good spot. I also think for snipers (i dont know if this is possible) make it so they cant see the grass in front of them, because nothing is worse then trying to shoot someone with a peice of grass waving in front of you, while they cant see the grass in front of you.