Different Sized "Area Attacks"

[RustyBandSaw]

Currently, there is one Area Attack, which I figure has the destructive power of a 1000 or 2000 lb. JDAM, which can be used every 60 minutes.

Why not have a second "size" of area attack, which would have the destructive power of a 500 lb. JDAM, which could be used more frequently, say 15 to 30 minutes.

There could be a detractor to using the smaller area attack, however. Whenever you use it, it increases the "time-to-live" for the larger area attack.

I think this would allow the Commander more options when commanding. It seems that most rounds played on a Public server, the area attack only gets use once, if at all.

Comment, flame away...

- RBS

[[T]Terranova7]

I don't thinks it's needed considering the most of the current jets drop the 500lb bombs.

In all seriousness I think the current JDAM timer needs a serious reduction. Truth is... it's not that much of a groundbreaking weapon. You're not going to have many opportunities where half a dozen active tanks are all cramped up in one spot, and the fact that anything not destructible provides guaranteed protection (Just look around for that screenshot of the JDAM dropping on the Estate in Qwai River) just adds to the list of problems.

I'd bring the 2000lb JDAM timer down to 10 to 20 minutes. Or... I'd make a global limit as to how many are available per game (Perhaps 4) that could possibly be used every 5 minutes or so.

[Razick]

Dont know about 20 minutes thats overkill. Im thinking more along the lines of 45 minutes. That way you can have two in the average hour and half pub round.

[rangedReCon]

Well personally I'd like something like artillery to make a triumphant return into PR. But it wouldn't be like in 'nilla but incorporate the same system of delivery as a JDAM. If I do remember this was in OGT (build 0.4?).

I'm not really sure how player controlled artillery (something that has been brought up in the past) would work TBH, just seems retarded as there's only 32 players and taking away another to control arty seems ridiculous.

Artillery shouldn't replace the JDAM although but both should be included. Artillery's timer could be set at 20mins, and the JDAM stay the same. The artillery's blast radius should be maybe 3/4 of the JDAM's but do less damage overall.

[Kontrollturm]

Jdam is so useless in comparsion to its spawntime... I was com, 20 of my guys were at Mecoupost, Jdam Direct hit, 1 guy died... smoke began directly on outpost, maybe bad placed but not affective at all. If we have smaller weapons, i think they will destroy the bunkers all the time.. thats just not the sence of it. building new bunker every 20min....

Maybe just getting an Smoke Atillery (red smoke f.e.)... or an CS gas attack...

[gclark03]

The best player-controlled artillery system in BF2 was invented/pioneered in Forgotten Hope 2. It works like this:

1) Artillery gunner enters the mortar. There are two meters - Azimuth and Elevation - which remain blank when no target is spotted by a forward observer (SOFLAM).

2) When a target is given by a forward observer, the azimuth and elevation meters are given markings. By setting both azimuth and elevation to 0 with the mouse, the player will fire at the exact target. (In FH2, the arty gunner is allowed to see the area around his target with the Right Mouse button, but this probably isn't realistic.)

3) After about 60 seconds (like BF1942), the target expires. If no more targets exist, the meters go blank; if multiple targets exist, the gunner can switch between targets at will.

---
Something like this, as a Commander asset at Forward Outposts, could make the current JDAM, as an anti-personnel weapon, obsolete. Against modern tanks, it might not be as effective, but it would be guaranteed to scare the hell out of any tank crew in PR.

[Skodz]

Player controlled artillery would certainly be very nice.

[[T]Terranova7]

Dont know about 20 minutes thats overkill. Im thinking more along the lines of 45 minutes. That way you can have two in the average hour and half pub round.

Actually. I believe 7.5 reduced the JDAM timer to 45 minutes. The thing is... even at a low timer such as 20 minutes, you'll hardly see it used at every 20 minute interval. First you would need the commander to be present, not only that but the commander has the power to approve and reject requests.

Then you have to take into consideration the individual squad leaders, whom I believe need to have the officer kit with SOFLAM, so this excludes armor & air squads from calling in JDAM strikes. And finally, the SL needs to make an informed decision on whether or not to request a JDAM on a location, that's assuming the SL even knows about the JDAM strike and how to use it (How many times have you found yourself teaching your SL how to lase targets for CAS). Players would need coordination, experience and expertise in order to call in good JDAM strikes. So considering that, there's usually what another 5 to 10 minute lag before the JDAM is usually dropped.

Even now, on maps with the JDAM the average rate you tend to see them is like what, once every hour and thirty minutes? Unless the Commander is crying for someone to call in a JDAM no one wants to use it until a desperate situation, which usually never occurs. Often times, JDAMs are called in at the end of the game either on the respective team's own base or on some worthless targets (I remember seeing a JDAM called on one tank... which it missed mind you).

Point is... the JDAM isn't some mini nuke that's going to sway one team's chances of victory or defeat. I've seen JDAMs called on the Qinling village only to kill an infantryman or two, despite the darn place crawling with armor. Though that's all my opinion.

__________

On the note of artillery, I'm still in the firm belief an off-map area attack method would be better than player controlled artillery. Reason being you're taking more boots off the ground and adding yet another support role players will typically flock to.

What does that mean? Well on a map like Kashan, in addition to your dedicated air and armor squads (Not even including more specialized roles like air attack, air transport, tanks and the occasional Anti-Air) you're now going to witness dedicated artillery squads. All of that takes away from what's usually needed most, infantry.

[[T]waylay00]

For the "newcomers" who entered the Battlefield series with BF2, the best player controlled artillery was in Battlefield 1942 (and it's mods). It's pretty similar to the Forgotten Hope 2 system, but a little more polished.

I absolutely hate the "point-and-click" artillery in BF2.

[DeltaFart]

I could never hit anything in 42, never could figure it out

[Sadist_Cain]

Imo 3 separate 500lb jdams (that all must be deployed at the same time) would be far better and more destructive

[Waaah_Wah]

I guess DEV's could use 10 pojectiles instead of one, but keeping the same sound and smoke effect to improve the current JDAM so if one of the projectiles miss, the rest of them will probably hit.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Terranova7;710189']Actually. I believe 7.5 reduced the JDAM timer to 45 minutes. The thing is... even at a low timer such as 20 minutes, you'll hardly see it used at every 20 minute interval. First you would need the commander to be present, not only that but the commander has the power to approve and reject requests.

Then you have to take into consideration the individual squad leaders, whom I believe need to have the officer kit with SOFLAM, so this excludes armor & air squads from calling in JDAM strikes. And finally, the SL needs to make an informed decision on whether or not to request a JDAM on a location, that's assuming the SL even knows about the JDAM strike and how to use it (How many times have you found yourself teaching your SL how to lase targets for CAS). Players would need coordination, experience and expertise in order to call in good JDAM strikes. So considering that, there's usually what another 5 to 10 minute lag before the JDAM is usually dropped.

Even now, on maps with the JDAM the average rate you tend to see them is like what, once every hour and thirty minutes? Unless the Commander is crying for someone to call in a JDAM no one wants to use it until a desperate situation, which usually never occurs. Often times, JDAMs are called in at the end of the game either on the respective team's own base or on some worthless targets (I remember seeing a JDAM called on one tank... which it missed mind you).

Point is... the JDAM isn't some mini nuke that's going to sway one team's chances of victory or defeat. I've seen JDAMs called on the Qinling village only to kill an infantryman or two, despite the darn place crawling with armor. Though that's all my opinion.

__________

On the note of artillery, I'm still in the firm belief an off-map area attack method would be better than player controlled artillery. Reason being you're taking more boots off the ground and adding yet another support role players will typically flock to.

What does that mean? Well on a map like Kashan, in addition to your dedicated air and armor squads (Not even including more specialized roles like air attack, air transport, tanks and the occasional Anti-Air) you're now going to witness dedicated artillery squads. All of that takes away from what's usually needed most, infantry.

No, it is still 1 hour. It actually starts loading at around 57:30-58 minutes. I believe 30 minutes would be adequate and not overkill, but I also see how 20 minutes could work too since the CO is not always present and when I am CO, I make absolutely sure that the target is a valid one that will do the most damage, so I usually save it.

[(HUN)Rud3bwoy]

Terranova7;710189']On the note of artillery, I'm still in the firm belief an off-map area attack method would be better than player controlled artillery. Reason being you're taking more boots off the ground and adding yet another support role players will typically flock to.

What does that mean? Well on a map like Kashan, in addition to your dedicated air and armor squads (Not even including more specialized roles like air attack, air transport, tanks and the occasional Anti-Air) you're now going to witness dedicated artillery squads. All of that takes away from what's usually needed most, infantry.

My thoughts exactly.

[Harrod200]

I could never hit anything in 42, never could figure it out

You just gotta zero in on the target, you see where your last shot hit in relation to the target, and adjust appropriately.

[gclark03]

Terranova7;710189']On the note of artillery, I'm still in the firm belief an off-map area attack method would be better than player controlled artillery. Reason being you're taking more boots off the ground and adding yet another support role players will typically flock to.

Count them - two boots actually off the front lines, the boots of the mortar gunner himself. The spotter is any infantryman with a SOFLAM - besides, does anyone complain when boots are taken off the front lines to build a Forward Outpost?

Even then, the PR mortars would conceivably be located at a firebase, not all the way back at main. When the artillery missions stop coming in, the gunner will simply move on to another task.

If anything, player-controlled artillery is a situational tool, not a constant drain on the team's infantry.

[Tirak]

I would like to see player controlled arty in a manner which wouldn't take them away from the fight, the way to do this? Mortar Gunner Limited kit. Same stats as the HAT kit except instead of a missile, he has a mortar which he deploys (The morter is a weapon that spawns a mortar on the ground where it hits, extreamly short range, only deployed from prone, long warm up time like the HAT kit so they have to stand still and wait to simulate deploying the mortar) Only the Mortar gunner can operate the Mortar which has one round but can be supplied from ammo bags (So an effective mortar team would be a Mortar Gunner and an Ammo Rifleman). The Mortar should work similar to the way suggested by gclark03, but also allows you to fire for effect (you don't have to shoot at the target lased by the SOFLAM, it just gives a reference point) In this way you could set up a mortar to support the rest of the squad on an attack. The Mortar Deploy Weapon would only be reloadable at Bunkers, Firebases and Command Posts and only one mortar can be dropped by a player at a time, the first one would be destroyed/disappeared if a second is placed. Do this an boom, you've got forward deployed arty and a squad still in the fight.

[[T]Terranova7]

Count them - two boots actually off the front lines, the boots of the mortar gunner himself. The spotter is any infantryman with a SOFLAM - besides, does anyone complain when boots are taken off the front lines to build a Forward Outpost?

Even then, the PR mortars would conceivably be located at a firebase, not all the way back at main. When the artillery missions stop coming in, the gunner will simply move on to another task.

If anything, player-controlled artillery is a situational tool, not a constant drain on the team's infantry.

That's assuming there's only one mortar on the whole team... which if that's the case having artillery support wouldn't be all that effective and worthwhile for the devs to make in my opinion.

I would say at a minimum 2 to 3 mortars would be desirable. And if we just go with 2 mortars, at minimum efficiency we're talking 2 gunners and a spotter, but ideally you might want another spotter in case artillery support is needed elsewhere. So we're talking about on average a 4 man squad... That doesn't sound like much, but considering we only have a 32 man team, 4 boots off the ground is a whole infantry squad in my book.

[Bringerof_D]

as much as i loved the player operated artillery in 1942 and how much i pwned with it, it is allready hard enough to find more than 1 squad whos actually out int he field fighting, atleast 1/3 of the team will always be hanging around the main for an aircraft on maps like kashan, those are the players i hate the most. and then there is another quarter sitting waiting for tanks, the other quarter left is out in the field but sitting around in a pointless area picking off the occasional man out in the desert. in my experience other than the squad i run and one other squad(also rare for me to see) who are actually busting into the flag zone and capping the flags

[gclark03]

Terranova7;710530']That's assuming there's only one mortar on the whole team... which if that's the case having artillery support wouldn't be all that effective and worthwhile for the devs to make in my opinion.

I would say at a minimum 2 to 3 mortars would be desirable. And if we just go with 2 mortars, at minimum efficiency we're talking 2 gunners and a spotter, but ideally you might want another spotter in case artillery support is needed elsewhere. So we're talking about on average a 4 man squad... That doesn't sound like much, but considering we only have a 32 man team, 4 boots off the ground is a whole infantry squad in my book.

Are they putting amputees with missing legs on artillery teams these days? 4 men = 8 boots, for future reference.

Besides, who said an entire squad would be dedicated to spotting? Any SOFLAM laser signal should register, regardless of squad.

As for your multiple mortars argument, I need to know the range limitations of a modern mortar to give an acceptable response. I was thinking that each would have a range of, say, 1km or 500m, as a defensive feature of bunkers and an offensive feature of firebases. With 1 mortar per firebase, the impact on the amount of grunts would be minimal, and give those idiots waiting for aircraft/tanks something to do as an alternative.