Weapon Bayonets

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-19 01:09

I don't think most troops would use the Bayonet widely since it would probably add much more weight to the weapons front end, making it slightly harder to aim. You see them when they are doing crowd control, but that is just as a deterent and to keep them back. And in close quarters, a knife on the end of your weapon protruding out might be a little distracting. You won't find a majority of the troops carrying bayonets.

I was watching "Shootout" on the History Channel and a Recon Marine went into some reeds and shallow water with only his Kabar in order to kill an insurgent and slit his throat, then drowned him. In close quarters the knife would probably be a little more practical then a bayonet, especially if your enemy is within 3-5 feet in which you cant really trust multiple times or aim the knife as well.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2006-03-19 01:39

LOL, nice picture Eddie, it would be hilarious to see

FlyBoy[Shovel]poorfool

Anyway, i think bayonets would be a cool thing to have with some kits, would love to go around shanking people

Eagle · Post by **Eagle** » 2006-03-19 01:41

How exactly would you use a bayonet anyway, if you were stabbing someone, you'd have to hold it differently to how you shoot it, making it sort-of dumb if you could just shoot them.

The only benefit I see it if you could use it as a sort of a knife-on-the-end-of-a-pole type thing, and cut off some guy's legs from behind.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2006-03-19 01:44

Eagle wrote:How exactly would you use a bayonet anyway, if you were stabbing someone, you'd have to hold it differently to how you shoot it, making it sort-of dumb if you could just shoot them.

think about when you knife someone, you could of shot them, but its more satisfying to knife them

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » 2006-03-19 01:56

well, considering you have a knife on the end of your gun you conceivably could knife and shoot them at the same time, adding double the fun

Guys, the debate on whether or not they still are used is moot, almost every modern assault rifle has a bayonet attachment, they are handy, for one, it simply extends the effective reach of the soldier, instead of getting close enough to possibly be grabbed or stabbed back, you have 2+ feet between you and the enemy if the need arises.

They had knives before they had spears and then they made the knife longer to make it more effective {spear}, but when the spear ceased to be effective, they came up with a bigger knife {sword}.

Its simple physics as well, you can stick someone better from further away, the mounting of the bayonet to the barrel makes it 'harder' when a blow is struck, it also makes it easier to retract for subsequent blows.

I'd rather have a club, than a toothpick, and a club with a sharp thing on the end is just 'TITS"

ESHERHUT · Post by **ESHERHUT** » 2006-03-19 04:44

heh,if bayonets were put into the game,getting the knife badge wouldn't be a hassle....

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-19 05:35

Keep bayonets out

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-03-19 06:28

In Red Orchestra I'm getting more bayonet kills than hand grenade kills.

Infantrigel · Post by **Infantrigel** » 2006-03-19 12:53

'[R-CON wrote:NikovK']In Red Orchestra I'm getting more bayonet kills than hand grenade kills.

Yeah but in WW2 they used real bayonets not such modern camping knifes.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-19 12:58

Nevermore wrote:well, considering you have a knife on the end of your gun you conceivably could knife and shoot them at the same time, adding double the fun

Guys, the debate on whether or not they still are used is moot, almost every modern assault rifle has a bayonet attachment, they are handy, for one, it simply extends the effective reach of the soldier, instead of getting close enough to possibly be grabbed or stabbed back, you have 2+ feet between you and the enemy if the need arises.

They had knives before they had spears and then they made the knife longer to make it more effective {spear}, but when the spear ceased to be effective, they came up with a bigger knife {sword}.

Its simple physics as well, you can stick someone better from further away, the mounting of the bayonet to the barrel makes it 'harder' when a blow is struck, it also makes it easier to retract for subsequent blows.

I'd rather have a club, than a toothpick, and a club with a sharp thing on the end is just 'TITS"

Yea, they have bayonet attachments, but how many times will they realistically use it or come into a situation where they are going to put in on before hand? You won't see any SOF or special forces using that for sure.

And if you put a bayonet on, it takes the skill out of knifing and those conflicts where you run right into a person and you are both out of ammo and have to resort to your knifes. Instead, people would just aimlessly rush with their knifes out and either do stupid stuff, or have an advantage for close quarters which they really wouldn't have in real life with the bayonet on ie. front weight, aiming it, distractions etc.

Langeman · Post by **Langeman** » 2006-03-19 20:24

The Royal Swedish Navy uses a 9mm submachinegun called M45, used by the US Navy SEAL during Vietnam. M45C allows you to fit a bayonet, or a what I would call a small/short sword.

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » 2006-03-20 00:33

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Yea, they have bayonet attachments, but how many times will they realistically use it or come into a situation where they are going to put in on before hand? You won't see any SOF or special forces using that for sure.

And if you put a bayonet on, it takes the skill out of knifing and those conflicts where you run right into a person and you are both out of ammo and have to resort to your knifes. Instead, people would just aimlessly rush with their knifes out and either do stupid stuff, or have an advantage for close quarters which they really wouldn't have in real life with the bayonet on ie. front weight, aiming it, distractions etc.

If they dont use them, why are they:

1. ISSUED?

2. TRAINED TO USE THEM?

3. ABLE TO BE ATTACHED TO ALL MODERN MILSPEC MAIN BATTLE RIFLES?

4. MORE EFFECTIVE THAN A KNIFE ALONE?

Well realistically, there might and very well could be a time when you run out of ammunition, thats EXACTLY why EVERYONE, including SOF forces are issued a bayonet with the corresponding rifle. {try reading about the TET OFFENSIVE, circa Viet nam and see how much and effective the bayonet is in a semi modern combat environment}

Please remember, SOF people arent automagically created by cloning Rambo and the Terminator, they dont graduate from SEAL high school, or RANGER daycare, they are brought up through regular ranks and services, volunteering for the training, and then working hard and long to be where they are at, so they HAVE had bayonet training, even if its way back in bootcamp when they were a buckprivate.....

It doesnt take but half a second to attach the damned thing either, you slide it over the flash supresser, and it *CLICKS* into its locked on position, BINGO your ready to gut your enemy at your leisure.

And having something that makes the barrel weigh a little more at the end, makes RECOIL a little better to control, whether it be a knife, or a muzzle brake. It doesnt distract, because they dont put them in the LOS of the weapon its on, go look at some pictures before making a broad sweeping statement like that.

And modern main battle rifles arent made of crackers, they dont break as easy as you might think from striking or stabbing someone with them, yeah it mgiht ruin your combat zero, but hey, if your out of ammo that doesnt really matter anymore anyways, does it?

The bayonet affixed to a rifle is not as good as a knife?!?!? that doesnt add up either, tell that to my DI from boot..............for every one reason you can think of why you dont think they are used i bet i can site 10 that they are used, especially when it comes to a building search, or bunkers, or tunnels {which i know doesnt really apply to BF2, but im referring to real life} Ideally you dont ever want to use your bayonet, that means your cut off from your supply chain/the enemy is too close, but a well trained soldier knows how to be prepared for just such and emergency and perservere through it.

If the sole reason you guys dont want the bayonet ingame is for BALANCE purposes, then its not REALISM your after, nearly everyone, every soldier whos ever been through bootcamp from past times to current ones learns to use the bayonet on his rifle for fighting, bottom line and fact. Whether or not that the situation ever arises that they actually use it, is another story, but im pretty sure it happens more than you think it does. { i can however understand why you wouldnt want it ingame}.

If its implemented, make it only useable when the weapon is out of ammunition, have a " fix bayonet " animation, then the primary fire button becomes a thrust, the secondary becomes a slash.

Might work, maybe if you can find a way for the smacktards arent able to empty thier weapons on spawn just to run around bayonetting people ;P
Maybe dont create or attach your kill count to a badge or award

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-20 01:28

You have to still have balance to make the game fun. And you were talking about Vietnam there, not modern times. Somethings are taught, but never used at all, but just taught so you will have that knowledge or be prepared for the future. Also, it is a part of history and if it is in use, they just keep using it. Weapons from today are also 30-40 years old, so they will probably keep making it for those same models etc. And they are also good for riot control.

Also, you don't know if the enemy has a vest on with ceramic plates which would stop the knife coming and it would be harder for the soldier/marine to hit the neck/head, a smaller target.

It is not always as effective as a knief alone because if you run into someone close up, you don't have much stabbing room and you cant really get at his throat effectively.

Another ex. Marines in Iraqi were clearing out a dark building when the point man ran into an insurgent. His fellow Marines were a littles away from him. He immediately took out his Kabar while getting up and used a manveur on him(which I forget), then proceeded to cut his throat.

You think even if he had his bayonet on, he would of been able to use it effectively? You also have to think about the close quarters that the soldiers and marines are fighting in the Middle East which would also make having a bayonet on hard to manuveur. This is not Vietnam. They have less room, and a bayonet would be more cumbersome.

Demio · Post by **Demio** » 2006-03-20 01:42

I think adding a bayonet to some classes would be a great addition to both realism and gameplay. As long as you dont make it overpowered (give it a 1m range? and make it so the baynoet is put and removed from the weapon when you need it so it takes time to set up).

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-03-20 02:33

In Vietnam, the U.S. used the M16 and the Communists used the AK-47 or semi-automatic magazine rifles. These weapons had almost the exact specs of an M-16A1 or AK-101, and both had bayonet attachments.

In real life, soldiers are issued and trained in using their bayonets. In Iraq, we have seen several real situations where bayonets were used. In a realism game, we should reflect reality.

Bayonets need to be attached with the push of a button and stabbed through another, without requiring any weapon-switching or significantly reducing accuracy. Stab range should be about one meter. A player should be able to stab in a sprint. I would prefer if the attack not be the "pinpoint" type the knife is using, rather the bayonet attack should deal damage to a cone in front of the player, maybe a one or one-and-a-half foot circle. This will make it easier to score hits. The damage should be fully lethal , not so much because the enemy will die instantly from the stab, but will not be able to bear arms against the attacker with basically a spear stuck through him and someone angry holding the other end.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-20 02:41

the big prob i see with bayonets is that you can have primary, and secondary fire. IF you have a bayonet on then you can shoot with primary, and then use your bayonet on secondary. But then you have NO AIM! Other way arround this is to select the bayonet as a seprate weapon. But then you have the prob that you have to select this diffrent weapon and then stab the guy. When you select this diffrent weapon you wont be able to shoot your noraml wepaon. You might as well use a knife.

EDIT: also bayonets would also mean making every singal gun that would have them again, FROM SCRATCH!, means more time to wait till PR v3.0 or up is out

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-03-20 02:49

Oh yeah, and let me remind you.

You guys are suggesting a bayonet will ruin the balance.

My bayonet will render your rifles ineffective in combat?

My bayonet will outrange your rifle?

My bayonet will deflect bullets and shoot lighting bolts?

My knife that only stabs a meter in front of me while I can be SAW'd at over four-hundred meters will be... OVERPOWERED?

Reality check guys, if a bayonet-using grunt gets close enough to stab you, its your fault, not his. He wins because you could not keep the enemy at bay, and did not fix your own bayonet once the enemy got close.

On this note, could we have troops laying prone unable to shoot more than twenty, thirty degrees upwards and possibly put a cap on how fast they can turn on their stomachs? You can't really hold a weapon higher than that or suddenly pivot around on your gut. It would also mean that a bayonet versus a prone machine gunner would be a fun game of "shoot his feet before he stabs my face".

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2006-03-20 02:50

Engineers should get shovels/entrenching tools. Should this day come I want these shovels to have their big technicals names like M1986 or whatever it may be. Then, when a noobs asks what they've been killed by I can say "A shovel!"

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-20 03:08

Ugly Duck wrote:Engineers should get shovels/entrenching tools. Should this day come I want these shovels to have their big technicals names like M1986 or whatever it may be. Then, when a noobs asks what they've been killed by I can say "A shovel!"

thou you wont see the "M1986" at the top of the screen.... So they will never know what hit them

And shovles would be sort of pointless, you cant did wholes in BF2 unless you are running the editor

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-03-20 03:13

Woah, if we use the shovel to decapitate someone, can we stick the head on our bayonet and wave it around to nauseate and thus suppress the enemy?

Stop looking at me like that.