Plane/Jet Brakes

[SuperTimo]

all the pros have joysticks, they are the montage of the PR jet world

[Waaah_Wah]

^^Good god.. Y o u, d o n t , n e e d, a, s t i c k, t o, b e, a, g o o d, p i l o t!

Is that clear enough?

[Colt556]

You all are making it out as if this thread is here because people didn't know HOW to land. I'm pretty sure anyone who's flying knows how to land, otherwise they'd still be training. The fact of the matter is, the air-fields in EVERY pr map are too close to the battlfield. And sometimes you just don't have time to make a proper landing. Maybe you're on fire and you just want to land before you go boom, maybe an enemy jet is lurking about and you don't wanna spend an hour in the air trying to land, maybe an enemy AA vehicle is around and again, you wanna get on the ground. Hell, maybe you just wanna get down so you can get back in the fight.

Regardless of the reason, you can't allways land smoothly and perfectly. And with the size of PR maps they NEED to add a margin for error when it comes to landing. It'd be fine with all the maps were like, 20 km x 20 km but since they're not, the need for a landing brake is essential to keep things running smoothly. I don't want something that'll make you stop dead. Just, if I hit the runway at 800, or 900 KPH I can still stop at the end of the runway. It's not unreasonable, and while it might be unrealistic it'd be a counter for the unrealisticly short runways.

[M.Warren]

^^Good god.. Y o u, d o n t , n e e d, a, s t i c k, t o, b e, a, g o o d, p i l o t!

Is that clear enough?

Thanks for being a heat signature for an AIM-120.

[Chanvlan]

You all are making it out as if this thread is here because people didn't know HOW to land. I'm pretty sure anyone who's flying knows how to land, otherwise they'd still be training. The fact of the matter is, the air-fields in EVERY pr map are too close to the battlfield. And sometimes you just don't have time to make a proper landing. Maybe you're on fire and you just want to land before you go boom, maybe an enemy jet is lurking about and you don't wanna spend an hour in the air trying to land, maybe an enemy AA vehicle is around and again, you wanna get on the ground. Hell, maybe you just wanna get down so you can get back in the fight.

Regardless of the reason, you can't allways land smoothly and perfectly. And with the size of PR maps they NEED to add a margin for error when it comes to landing. It'd be fine with all the maps were like, 20 km x 20 km but since they're not, the need for a landing brake is essential to keep things running smoothly. I don't want something that'll make you stop dead. Just, if I hit the runway at 800, or 900 KPH I can still stop at the end of the runway. It's not unreasonable, and while it might be unrealistic it'd be a counter for the unrealisticly short runways.

Thats exactly what im saying, is that sometimes you come in a bit to fast and really cant do the whole setup. I use a Stick and i can land jets but the problem i and almost everyone would encounter is that sometimes the jet just doesnt slow down fast enough and you either go shooting off the end of the runway, and have to jump out to stop the plane and then loose your plane, or just crash. That is all we need a simple "brake" to stop the plane a bit better.

[Colt556]

I didn't realise landing within the distance of the runway was that hard. I can manage to land the A-10 and F-16 with half the runway to spare and it is possible to land the EF-2000 in an absolutely unrealistic distance(haven't tried the same with the other aircraft so i don't know if it works with them).

The problem most people face(not counting the people who completely miss the runway) apart from not knowing who to use the brakes is they fly straight at the runway.

What you can do is pull back on your joystick so you "nose up" and let gravity bring you down this will only work if your going at the right speed, too slow and you'll nose dive and too fast and you'll just gain altitude.

And to get back to what i first said about the EF-2000, does anybody else know about the unrealistic distance it can stop in(under ten metres)?

Exiled.

You're missing the entire point of this thread. We can ALL land, but there's no margin for error. You HAVE to hit the right speed or you die, one way or another. The point of this thread is to give us some breathing room. For those times when we just can't land propperly. Like I have said, maps in PR aren't big enough to allow you to land right every single time. Anyone who pilots on a regular basis knows there are times when you'll come in just a little hot, for whatever reason. The purpose of this thread is to get a brake so even if you come in alittle hot, you wont die.

[Tirak]

What do you mean by brake, describe in detail, thourougly, exactly what you want, and how you want it implemented (Not the mechanics, just the situation and buttons) because I think we're having some kind of problem understanding what you're trying to communicate.

[Colt556]

Basicly, like a hand-brake for your car type thing. Press a button, and your wheels sorta lock up and it stops your drasticly. Not instantly, just a drastic, noticable slow-down. So even if you land on the runway at 800, or 900 KPH you can still stop at the end. I'm not sure if planes have these but it'd be an unrealistic counter to the unrealisticly short runways.

[Tirak]

Okay, go here: YouTube - Project Reality Flight Training
Skip ahead to the 4:20 mark and Rhino distinctivly says: "When your speed is pretty low you can also apply the brake with your Taxi Engine by pulling back on your stick, doing this however when your plane is going too fast will make it climb back into the air again, you need to be going slow enough for your plane to stick to the ground so this will be effective."

That is how you brake. You'll also notice in Rhino's video, he stops well short of the edge of the runway and does not land near the begining of the runway, there is pleanty of margin for error it would seem.

[Colt556]

Okay, go here: YouTube - Project Reality Flight Training
Skip ahead to the 4:20 mark and Rhino distinctivly says: "When your speed is pretty low you can also apply the brake with your Taxi Engine by pulling back on your stick, doing this however when your plane is going too fast will make it climb back into the air again, you need to be going slow enough for your plane to stick to the ground so this will be effective."

That is how you brake. You'll also notice in Rhino's video, he stops well short of the edge of the runway and does not land near the begining of the runway, there is pleanty of margin for error it would seem.

..... He stopped well short of the runway because he made a perfect landing. And even then it wasn't really THAT short, he was pretty much at the end of the runway even with his perfect landing. Now what woulda happened if he had landed at 800 KPH, or 900? He woulda gone off the end and exploded.

What I want, is that while you're on the ground, but still going like 300, or 400 KPH and you're allready at the middle of the runway. You can apply a brake that'll just slow you down so that you'll stop at the end of the runway, despite comming in too hot. That's what I've been saying this entire time. It's what noone seems to be getting. This idea has NOTHING to do with making a perfect landing.

We can all make perfect landings, it's easy, it's simple. Noone has a problem with it. But the maps are tiny for air combat, and it's really easy for you to run outta room real quick. So sometimes you come in a little hot and you shouldn't HAVE to die just cuz that damned runway is so short.

So please, stop bringing up perfect landings. They have nothing to do with this topic and it's getting old having to repeat myself. This suggestion is geared to emergancy landings, when you CAN'T do the perfect landing. THAT is all that matters in this thread. How to give players a chance to survive if they come in a little hot.

We shoudn't allow them to land at like, 1200 KPH of course. But 100, or 200 KPH too fast shouldn't condem you to death. You should be able to still land during those speeds. Albeit cutting it close, it should be doable with the use of a brake. That's all I'm saying.

[turnpipe]

Okay, go here: YouTube - Project Reality Flight Training
Skip ahead to the 4:20 mark and Rhino distinctivly says: "When your speed is pretty low you can also apply the brake with your Taxi Engine by pulling back on your stick, doing this however when your plane is going too fast will make it climb back into the air again, you need to be going slow enough for your plane to stick to the ground so this will be effective."

That is how you brake. You'll also notice in Rhino's video, he stops well short of the edge of the runway and does not land near the begining of the runway, there is pleanty of margin for error it would seem.

The typhoon is so buff. You should learn how to land in the J10 first.
After that the rest of the jets are childs play.

[Tirak]

What is so desperate that you can't slow down to the right speed? If there's a fighter on you, don't land, inform the commander who'll detail someone to take it out, the landing field has defenses against fighters as well. If there's AAVs in the area, again, call the CO, he'll detail someone to take it out. If there's MANPADS in the area, call the CO, he'll detail someone to take it out, work with the team and you'll have all the time in the world. There is no reason you should be blasting in at full speed, then braking hard at the last minute to try and get your speed down, then complaining that the runway doesn't work becuase you couldn't follow the landing procedure. Follow proper procedure, and it'll work like a charm.

[Colt556]

What is so desperate that you can't slow down to the right speed? If there's a fighter on you, don't land, inform the commander who'll detail someone to take it out, the landing field has defenses against fighters as well. If there's AAVs in the area, again, call the CO, he'll detail someone to take it out. If there's MANPADS in the area, call the CO, he'll detail someone to take it out, work with the team and you'll have all the time in the world. There is no reason you should be blasting in at full speed, then braking hard at the last minute to try and get your speed down, then complaining that the runway doesn't work becuase you couldn't follow the landing procedure. Follow proper procedure, and it'll work like a charm.

Everything sounds so easy when written down on a forum, in practice it doesn't work that way. If an enemy jet is on me and I have no ammo, I can't just sit about and have tea while waiting for the commander, or even my own squad, to come to my aid. Allthough that would be about the only way I'd get out alive.

As for AAVs or MANPADS, I sure as hell can't just fly around waiting, and hoping, my team takes them out. I need to get on the ground, and out of their fireing range ASAP. The longer you're in the air the greater the risk of being shotdown. And I can't afford to fly to the opposite end of the map, come in at a straight line, and fly super slow to land. All the while having an AA gun stareing at me just going "Wow, so easy".

Things go down fast in PR. It can't be hassled to tell my SL I have an AA. I can't wait for him to find the bloody thing. I can't wait for him to tell the commander. I can't wait for the commander to order someone to take it out. There just isn't enough time.

And that's the overall point I think. Sometimes shit just don't go the way you want it to. While doing the proper landing sequence, and working as a team is all well and dandy, it just wont work sometimes. And why should I have to die, and lose a 20 minute asset, because I can't bloody land? That's kinda retarded if you ask me.

If I could just do a nice, sloppy, fast landing, and save my plane that'd be best. And I'm pretty sure in real life the plane could do a hard landing without going boom. But since in BF2 vehicles go boom for the most retarded reasons, we need other ways to be able to get on the ground quickly.

This goes for heli's too, really. Air vehicles are perhaps the most vulnerable vehicles in the game. With nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide. With about the only safe haven being their base. But what good does that do if they can't get on the bloody ground without doing a text-book landing?

This is war, this is a combat zone air-field, and air assets need to be able to do things that aren't considered safe in order to survive. If I have to come in 200 KPH too hot to save myself, and my plane. So be it. Damage it, I'll take it into the hangar and fix it. If I have to crash land in a heli in order to save my passengers, so be it. Make the damn thing broken and unable to fly.

I'm just sick of all these horrid, and unrealistic limitations when it comes to air assets. And while I know it's partly the engines fault, there are work-arounds. Any other vehicle can get away ricky tick. That tank can speed on down that hill to safety, that soldier can duck behind that rock. Why can't heli's and jets be afforded the same quick-escapes as everything else in the battlefield?

[Waaah_Wah]

..... He stopped well short of the runway because he made a perfect landing. And even then it wasn't really THAT short, he was pretty much at the end of the runway even with his perfect landing. Now what woulda happened if he had landed at 800 KPH, or 900? He woulda gone off the end and exploded.

What I want, is that while you're on the ground, but still going like 300, or 400 KPH and you're allready at the middle of the runway. You can apply a brake that'll just slow you down so that you'll stop at the end of the runway, despite comming in too hot. That's what I've been saying this entire time. It's what noone seems to be getting. This idea has NOTHING to do with making a perfect landing.

We can all make perfect landings, it's easy, it's simple. Noone has a problem with it. But the maps are tiny for air combat, and it's really easy for you to run outta room real quick. So sometimes you come in a little hot and you shouldn't HAVE to die just cuz that damned runway is so short.

So please, stop bringing up perfect landings. They have nothing to do with this topic and it's getting old having to repeat myself. This suggestion is geared to emergancy landings, when you CAN'T do the perfect landing. THAT is all that matters in this thread. How to give players a chance to survive if they come in a little hot.

We shoudn't allow them to land at like, 1200 KPH of course. But 100, or 200 KPH too fast shouldn't condem you to death. You should be able to still land during those speeds. Albeit cutting it close, it should be doable with the use of a brake. That's all I'm saying.

He landed almost on the middle of the run way... How is that a perfect landing?

Also, if your coming in too fast, dont land. Its that easy really

[Colt556]

He landed almost on the middle of the run way... How is that a perfect landing?

Also, if your coming in too fast, dont land. Its that easy really

What happens if you're too fast to land, but too slow to wave off?

[Tirak]

Then you botched your approach, you need to know ahead of time;
1. Your airspeed at the time you're above the runway
2. Your altitude at the time you're above the runway
3. Where you are going to hit the runway

That's why the best advice experianced pilots give in PR is practice, practice until this stuff becomes second nature. I fly the Merlin, do I fly any other chopper? No, because I have practiced with the Merlin for hours and I'm still not as good with it as I'd like to be. You've got to work hard at some things in PR, this is possibly the hardest.
As for "There's nowhwere for jets to hide," that's bull quite frankly. A jet can fly out of the airspace, even fly low or very high if they feel the need, helicopters can do the same, jets and helicopters have far more movement options when it comes to evasion.

[Colt556]

Then you botched your approach, you need to know ahead of time;
1. Your airspeed at the time you're above the runway
2. Your altitude at the time you're above the runway
3. Where you are going to hit the runway

That's why the best advice experianced pilots give in PR is practice, practice until this stuff becomes second nature. I fly the Merlin, do I fly any other chopper? No, because I have practiced with the Merlin for hours and I'm still not as good with it as I'd like to be. You've got to work hard at some things in PR, this is possibly the hardest.
As for "There's nowhwere for jets to hide," that's bull quite frankly. A jet can fly out of the airspace, even fly low or very high if they feel the need, helicopters can do the same, jets and helicopters have far more movement options when it comes to evasion.

I've never been able to escape an AA. And I've never had an enemy escape me when I'm in an AA. Once I get a heli or jet in my sights they can't go high enough, fast enough. And they sure as hell can't go low enough.

The AAV has a range of over a 1000 meters, I know that much is for sure. That means that jet has to get a 1000 meters in the air to escape it. That just aint gonna happen in the ammount of time it'd take that driver to get a lock and fire. So yeah, air assets really don't have anywhere to hide. Maybe from tanks and ground units, but not from AA.

Air assets do have places to hide, I guess. But you can't actually expect the pilot to stay 1500 meters in the air just because there's an AAV or something lurking around. And that pilot can't exactly land because if he tries he's dead anyways. He can't tell his team where the enemy is because if he knew, he'd kill it. So he's essentially stuck, hoping for his team to save him. Now I'm all for teamwork, but there's teamwork, and then there's being an invalid. I shouldn't have to spend the entire round in the clouds because my team is unable to find and destroy an AAV.

I should be able to do a nice, hard landing and hide in my base before that AAV can shoot me down. I mean really, what do you have against letting pilots do what real life pilots would do? You honestly think a real life pilot couldn't do an emergancy landing if need be? You honestly think a real life pilot would run off the end of the runway, or crash and explode into the ground from 20 meters up? Seriously man, air assets aren't so fragile in real life. And this mod is suppose to be realistic, so jets and heli's need to toughen up, and be able to crash land. Since sometimes crash landing is your only option.

[Eddiereyes909]

How to fly?


Seriously you guys are reminding me why I stick to infantry.

[Tirak]

Yeah, tell that to this guy who tried to do a crash landing. Jets are fragile IRL, and landing is one of the most dangerous parts of flying. You keep saying you can't rely on your team, then why are you playing PR, teamwork is paramount, you come in perfect, you've got double the runway space you need.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QJh1N6vsBqg[/youtube]