A brief question on .50 cals.

[Killer-Ape]

If it had a scope it would devistate the entire battlefield.

But it has!

[nedlands1]

Yea, i think if a round hit a rotor it wouldnt have the helo drop out of the sky instantly because there are three more rotors to compensate in a lot of cases, especially in the case of transport helos. Id love to hear answers from sombody in the airforce who studied it, then i could have some closure.

Think about it. If a round hit a rotor blade it would probably shatter it, throwing out shrapnel which could cause more damage to the helicopter. The shattered rotor blade would unbalance the whole assembly which would cause massive vibrations and possibly more breakages in the the rotor.

[Waaah_Wah]

Edit: Have you seen the new Rambo? A .50 cal does devastate a battlefield

Lol i was gonna say that

[BeerHunter]

Choppers have been described as a million pieces trying to shake themselves apart encased in an aluminum foil tube.

A .50 cal can blow a small engine block apart so impacting any critical component in a chopper (and there are literally thousands of them) will bring it down.

Not necessarily in a flaming ball as depicted in PRM but certainly either down or unserviceable.

Fortunately it isn’t as easy to hit a fast moving, highflying target IRL as it is in PRM.

[Sadist_Cain]

isnt the rotor shaft on the ah-64 Apache designed to be able to take a direct hit from a 30mm round?

[BeerHunter]

It may be but the turbines in the engine aren't , neither is the conduit encasing the electrical components nor the fuel lines nor...well..you get the picture.

Not saying anyone with a .50 can bring a chopper down as they do have a degree of armament over CRITICAL components but a shooter aiming at the right spots can certainly disable it.

And no chopper pilot in his right mind is going to carry on patrolling or press an attacking with alarms and buzzers going off in his ear.

[Psyko]

I dont think a fiddy would have much chance hitting a rotor, i mean the rotors spin pretty fast and the fiddy is going past the speed of sound, that and the gap between each rotor bring a low hit possibility i think. think about it this way, imagine the rotors spinning and the round flying and slow it down to a snails pace, i'd say the round has a one in five chance for a hit. and apart from it being a bigger target, thats why you would aim for the fuelisage...
Im not trying to bring up silly arguments to support myself or anything. im just saying, its a factor.

Not to mention, the fiddy rounds should fall down a lot imo. and i havnt used a co-axial .50 cal machinegun, but when the rounds eject doesnt it put pressure on the weapon making it spin to the left and down a bit?

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Shooting range with tracers some auto use, demo of recoil

YouTube - .50 Cal M2 Browning 12.7mm



50 Cal rifle bullet drop over very long range with tracer

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sTcJoOweZag



One of the guns in that vid is an anti tank gun, 14mm but converted to 50 cal
http://www.inert-ord.net/atrkts/50-55-20/index.html




Lots of pics
http://www.fcsa.co.uk/photo.htm

[Outlawz7]

.50 cals had bullet drop, but it was removed because IRL they have very long range or something like that

[Sadist_Cain]

50. 's are a bit like laser cannons right now though to be fair, Plus the fact that you can flip around 180 in half a second. More to the point of the OP I wouldn't question whether a 50. could take down a chopper, However those things do come back sometimes with a fair few bullet holes through them and just think of WW2 fighters sometimes coming back with over 200 bullet holes in their planes...
I'd say the bigger question is in reality is it as easy to track a chopper in flight and accurately lay down well aimed shots into the soft spots? it is of course possible irl but methinks its a bit more difficult than it is in PR right now with pretty much point n click n bye bye Helo

[tlindy]

Have you ever actually seen what a heavy caliber weapon will do to a aircraft? A front winshield will shread itself imagine what that does to a pilot? There are many things that it will simply pass right through and have no affect then there are many things that puts a quick end to its day. A slow moving low level heli attcked by a .50 and bye bye heli. Yes certain parts are rated to take hits by certain caliber weapons which is great unless you hit items that arent like, hydraulic lines, drive shafts, engines, certain flight controls, electrical wiring etc..

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I agree there should always be a slight inaccuracy to everything if possible but the present 50 cal in game isnt so unrealistic.

For 30 years the combat sniper record was held by a man who used a browning M2 50 cal + scope. And a 50 cal can used to demolish a solid brick wall, it'll knock it right down.
So if the 50 cal is powerfull in game it is just right


No recoil:


DShK 1938
YouTube - Heavy Russian Machine Guns: DSHK/ NSV/ KORD


Demolition:
YouTube - Russian Heavy Machine Gun Firing



The stryker 50 cal with its scope should be pretty powerfull

[Diogenes]

For 30 years the combat sniper record was held by a man who used a browning M2 50 cal + scope.

Sources?

As far as I know, the most confirmed kills attained by a single sniper was well over 500, by a Finnish soldier named Simo Häyhä, during the Winter War with the Soviets. They called him "White Death." He used a Mosin-Nagant with iron sights. IIRC, he didn't use telescopic sights because they required you to raise your head higher to use.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I just meant long distance/accuracy and I was refering to Carlos Hathcock

[Katarn]

He means longest distance shot, iirc broken by a Canadian Sniper during Operation Archer.

[Diogenes]

Gotcha. Just looked his name up.

1450 yards! Shit, that's great.

edit: 2400 meters?

I don't know, lots of misinformation.

Anyone know the actual distance of the kill?

[V4.SKUNK]

In "reality" 1 man with a AK47 can bring down an attack chopper. Choppers in PR are like tanks compared to choppers in "reality".

[Outlawz7]

Then again you'd need dumb r/l choppers to get shot down by an AK47 as they guy would be dead before he even knew there was a chopper near him.

[Ninja2dan]

Most helicopters are similar to aircraft in that their primary internal components are located where it would be more difficult to hit them with small-arms fire. While there are a lot of critical components in either fixed- or rotary-wing aircraft, the majority of hydraulic/electrical lines are clustered and running through the aircraft in places most small-arms would have trouble hitting well.

If you lit up a UH-60 for example with an AK-47, the rounds would most likely penetrate the soft outter skin, losing a lot of their velocity (not to mention losing velocity while streaking upwards through the air). The chances of one of those rounds hitting a critical component with enough force to knock it out is rare, but chances of a round striking an occupant inside is more likely. The crew is generally more protected than the passengers, hence the reason troops used to sit on their helmets or why crews lined the seating areas with spare vests.

A .50-cal will cause some damage to an aircraft, but it takes a lot of rounds to have much chance at getting a good hit. A single M2HB trying to thump a Hind or Hip at cruising speed is very ineffective, but you might get lucky. Once that helo slows down though the chances of damage go up. If you are in a helo that is taking fire and you need to slow down such as to land, I would say you either need to wait until the area is clear or you need to get ground units to support the helo with covering fire to distract the threat. You rarely see a helo attempt a landing in a hot LZ for this reason, but I have heard many stories from soldiers in Iraq and A-stan who later found bullet holes in their helos and never knew they were fired at until they saw the damage from the ground.

I'm sure I could find a PMCS manual around for a UH-1 or UH-60 to show diagrams of the hydro and electrical lines as well as critical systems, and there should be a few pilots or air crew on these forums who can confirm or correct my statements. I would think that if a helo was moving slowly, and enough fire was accurately directed at it, then it would be possible for a critical hit. But if the helo was moving quickly or only a single .50-cal was engaging it, chances would be pretty slim.

[77SiCaRiO77]

Then again you'd need dumb r/l choppers to get shot down by an AK47 as they guy would be dead before he even knew there was a chopper near him.

there was a case , dont remember if it was in desert storm or iraqui freedom , but 37 apaches were intersepted when they were going to a mission , by a small division of armor ,they were shoted by everything , 12.4mm, 14.5 mm , aks , and even the 125mm of the t72 , 1 choppers was shot down (by ak fire IIRC) and 32 more where damamged .

and i dont think those 33 choppers where dumb.