Mortars

Animalmother · Post by **Animalmother** » 2006-03-26 23:40

I think it would depend on the range if it were static. In DC there were a few static mortars but were pretty much useless since they couldnt hit any targets of value. Im still for mortar in a kit

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-03-26 23:45

This has been discussed before. Mortars are something we plan to include, at least in the stationary and vehicle-mounted role. As for man-portable and/or deployable mortars, that's a bit more difficult to realistically implement.

The 51mm platoon light mortar is being phased out of UK service by the L17A1 underslung 40mm grenade launchers in each fire-team. This process started in 2001.

As for man-portable deployable mortars, realistically, they'd have to be in their own kit, if implemented. The lightest US mortar (60mm M224) weighs about 50 lbs in full bipod and baseplate configuration, and about 27 lbs with the smaller baseplate. In the hand-held, trigger fired role it weighs maybe 17 lbs. That's not including ammunition and propellant charges, of course, which the gunner can carry maybe 3 of in addition to the weapon.

The gunner in a mortar crew according to TO&E carries only a sidearm, relying on a-gunners/ammunition bearers and the rifle units he supports to provide local security. So, realistically, we'd have a class with a sidearm and a large weapon he can't really use much (maybe even at all) without other players present to drop ammunition when he deploys it. And it would also be more difficult to use than the rocket or ATGM launcher. It could be made a very powerful weapon in the right hands, but who would pick it up?

Also, mortars aren't crewed by combat engineers, but by "Indirect Fire Infantrymen" (Army MOS 11C) or Mortarmen (USMC MOS 0341) integral to an infantry company or battalion. Army Special Forces Weapons Sergeants (MOS 18B) are also trained to operate them. In the British Army and Royal Marines, mortars are also operated by infantrymen and are integral to the infantry battalion (and platoon, in the case of the 51mm mortar).

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-27 00:16

How about we get rid of the giant arty gun models, and replace em with twice as many mortars, and some animated guys that idle around it and fire em when called on?

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-03-27 00:22

Figisaacnewton wrote:How about we get rid of the giant arty gun models, and replace em with twice as many mortars, and some animated guys that idle around it and fire em when called on?

But firing motars manualy is a lot more fun

Been wanting manned arty forever. Thats what I always did in 1942

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-03-27 01:12

having someone manning the arty the entire game makes one less person actually fighting a battle. i guess if the comander was on it it would be ok...

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-27 01:40

The grenade launchers are basically mortars, so there really is not need to include another grenade weapon of the sort. And trust me, you would have at least 1/3 of the the minimum camping it because they are too lazy to actually fight or want to get some easy kills which will mess up this game.

And as it is right now, there are hardly any commanders on. There are also not that many teamplayers on as well, so don't try and complicate this game with something that can be pretty easily abused or misused.

Animalmother · Post by **Animalmother** » 2006-03-27 03:28

'[R-PUB wrote:Szarko']But firing motars manualy is a lot more fun Been wanting manned arty forever. Thats what I always did in 1942

ditto

Animalmother · Post by **Animalmother** » 2006-03-27 03:30

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:The grenade launchers are basically mortars, so there really is not need to include another grenade weapon of the sort. And trust me, you would have at least 1/3 of the the minimum camping it because they are too lazy to actually fight or want to get some easy kills which will mess up this game.

And as it is right now, there are hardly any commanders on. There are also not that many teamplayers on as well, so don't try and complicate this game with something that can be pretty easily abused or misused.

if you've ever used the mortar in DC, you know theyre definitely no easy kills.

DangChang · Post by **DangChang** » 2006-03-27 05:15

The only problem with mortars in DC was that you could place it on a hill, and it would shoot straight. Dunno if the same problem exists here.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-27 14:31

Animalmother wrote:if you've ever used the mortar in DC, you know theyre definitely no easy kills.

They are if you string a whole bunch of them together with like at least 5-10 players+, which I have seen in BFV. Mortars alone are not deadly, but a lot are just like the M203 is.

Lugubrum · Post by **Lugubrum** » 2006-03-27 18:21

That brings back good memories from BFV. I remember when everybody was just shooting at the bridge (on Hue map) with the mortars.

A couple of days ago there was a guy on Gloryhoundz server who used the grenadelauncher as some kind of mortar and it was really effective. So I think it's a good idea (if they don't become too powerful).

Animalmother · Post by **Animalmother** » 2006-03-27 18:41

Lugubrum wrote:That brings back good memories from BFV. I remember when everybody was just shooting at the bridge (on Hue map) with the mortars.

A couple of days ago there was a guy on Gloryhoundz server who used the grenadelauncher as some kind of mortar and it was really effective. So I think it's a good idea (if they don't become too powerful).

Im 80% sure that was me lol

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-28 23:11

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']This has been discussed before. Mortars are something we plan to include, at least in the stationary and vehicle-mounted role. As for man-portable and/or deployable mortars, that's a bit more difficult to realistically implement.

The 51mm platoon light mortar is being phased out of UK service by the L17A1 underslung 40mm grenade launchers in each fire-team. This process started in 2001.

As for man-portable deployable mortars, realistically, they'd have to be in their own kit, if implemented. The lightest US mortar (60mm M224) weighs about 50 lbs in full bipod and baseplate configuration, and about 27 lbs with the smaller baseplate. In the hand-held, trigger fired role it weighs maybe 17 lbs. That's not including ammunition and propellant charges, of course, which the gunner can carry maybe 3 of in addition to the weapon.

The gunner in a mortar crew according to TO&E carries only a sidearm, relying on a-gunners/ammunition bearers and the rifle units he supports to provide local security. So, realistically, we'd have a class with a sidearm and a large weapon he can't really use much (maybe even at all) without other players present to drop ammunition when he deploys it. And it would also be more difficult to use than the rocket or ATGM launcher. It could be made a very powerful weapon in the right hands, but who would pick it up?

Also, mortars aren't crewed by combat engineers, but by "Indirect Fire Infantrymen" (Army MOS 11C) or Mortarmen (USMC MOS 0341) integral to an infantry company or battalion. Army Special Forces Weapons Sergeants (MOS 18B) are also trained to operate them. In the British Army and Royal Marines, mortars are also operated by infantrymen and are integral to the infantry battalion (and platoon, in the case of the 51mm mortar).

Can mortars be made like a vehical?
(Press E to pick it up from a spawnpoint?)

Post by **AiRfOrCe** » 2006-03-28 23:12

That's what I suggested in some thread somewhere.

By doing that, people can't plant on hillsides, and thus your trajectories would be very high and harder to aim. This would avoid 'camping' an enemy base.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-28 23:32

There's a version of the LAV that has a mortar instead of a cannon

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-29 18:52

Animalmother wrote:Im 80% sure that was me lol

Could of also been me. Not to brag or anything, but I think I may have been the first to come up with this idea. I used it on Dragon Valley with my squad once and in Karkand 1, and I have a support resupplying me and my other partner, just mortaring the hell out of their mains. I remember on karkand that someone actually started mortaring us back after they caught on. It is hard to get many kills with it unless you have a couple of guys and have a good view, but it has a good psychological effect along with it.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-03-30 00:00

There is a new stryker carrier that deploys mortar crews, and the mortar can be used in the new mortar carrier stryker variant. And the old M113's had a version that could deploy a mortar out of the back.

And Eddie Baker is totally on point with everything he said.

Animalmother · Post by **Animalmother** » 2006-03-30 01:14

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Could of also been me. Not to brag or anything, but I think I may have been the first to come up with this idea. I used it on Dragon Valley with my squad once and in Karkand 1, and I have a support resupplying me and my other partner, just mortaring the hell out of their mains. I remember on karkand that someone actually started mortaring us back after they caught on. It is hard to get many kills with it unless you have a couple of guys and have a good view, but it has a good psychological effect along with it.

yep, its all about the psychological effect. thats what I try to do in online games.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-03-30 02:20

Cerberus wrote:There's a version of the LAV that has a mortar instead of a cannon

Yes, the LAV-M carries an M252 81mm mortar on a turntable that can rotate 360 degrees. There's also the LAV-AT, which carries a "hammerhead" TOW launcher with two ready rounds, as seen on the Army's M901 ITV.

Deuce6 wrote:There is a new stryker carrier that deploys mortar crews, and the mortar can be used in the new mortar carrier stryker variant. And the old M113's had a version that could deploy a mortar out of the back.

The Stryker MCV comes in two flavors, 81mm and 120mm, from what I understand. The M113 mortar carrier has not gone the way of the dinosaur, it's still in the track units. It used to carry the 4.2 inch mortar, but now the M1064A3 carries the M121 120mm mortar. I think there are still M113 81mm carriers around, too. The disadvantage of the heavy mortar carrier is that the traverse of the turntable is limited to about a 90 degree arc over the rear of the vehicle, rather than a full 360 degrees, but with a tracked vehicle that can do a pivot turn/neutral steer, it isn't so much of a problem as it would be for a wheeled vehicle to reposition.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-03-30 19:44

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']
The Stryker MCV comes in two flavors, 81mm and 120mm, from what I understand. The M113 mortar carrier has not gone the way of the dinosaur, it's still in the track units. It used to carry the 4.2 inch mortar, but now the M1064A3 carries the M121 120mm mortar. I think there are still M113 81mm carriers around, too. The disadvantage of the heavy mortar carrier is that the traverse of the turntable is limited to about a 90 degree arc over the rear of the vehicle, rather than a full 360 degrees, but with a tracked vehicle that can do a pivot turn/neutral steer, it isn't so much of a problem as it would be for a wheeled vehicle to reposition.

Yea our 11Charlies are still waiting on them. Wish we had them in Iraq, then we could have them out there with us shooting up the bad guys. I can't tell you how many times i've been mortared, and wished we had our mortarmen with us. What good is a fister if you don't have the tubes to put rounds on target!?!?!