Question: In .8 will th Marksmen Rifles be differentiated More?

[DavidP]

In the guide it says that Precision Rifles are zeroed at 600m. And as we all know 'Precision Rifles' are DM rifles. (Here's the whole quote so we are all on the same page)

Precision Rifles

Precision Rifles are basically Assault Rifles with more range and sometimes a larger caliber. They are usually semi-automatic weapons and are best used to support your squad in taking out targets that are out of the effective range of the other rifles.

Important: DM Rifles in Project Reality are "zeroed" at 600m. With the BF2 engine this means that you will only have to compensate for the bullets trajectory at distances greater than this.

Up until recently I never believed it. Since they all had different Calibers I thought that the ones with the smaller caliber bullets(L86a2, Qbu-88 ), Would maybe top out at a bit Higher range then Assault Rifles, and the Higher Calibers(SVD, M14 DMR) topped out at 600m. But my testing on a local Qinling and Kashan server, pretty much confirmed what the guide said. Almost all the rifles hit at 600m before the rounds started to descend.(The L86a2 was the exception, I did not see a Bullet always hit the same spot at 300, 400, 500, 600, and 650m ranges, Could have been the smoke puff that was obstructing my view of the bullet though) Some it was Easier then others(M14, Qbu-88 ), Others harder(Svd, L86a2).

So my Question is will in .8 the Marksmen Rifles be more differentiated?




I'm also gonna Test Sniper Rifles at a later date, and Assault Rifles if my curiosity need be satisfied.

[Pvt.King]

off topic
I hope USMC marksman issued SAM-R rather than the M14

[OkitaMakoto]

Im not sure what you mean... all the DM rifles are meant to hit at 600M. They are zeroed to 600M. Meaning that AFTER 600M they will drop... You could zero a submachine gun to 600M if you wanted[assuming it had the power to make it there]

Heres a response to what I think you are asking:
So you mean that you want the zeroed distance to be different among marksmen rifles? Im not sure thats a good thing seeing as you dont always play as the same team. In a standard army thatd be fine to have it zeroed to your own liking, but since you cant expect everyone to know the zeroed range for all factions' DM's Id say its fine them all being at 600M

Sorry, I guess im just not totally sure what you're asking if I didnt answer it correctly... :\

[DavidP]

Sorry, I guess im just not totally sure what you're asking :\

I was asking if the Dev's plan an zeroing the DM rifles differently, based on caliber.

[zangoo]

The guns are not zeroed to any range in project reality.

The bullets in project reality start to drop the second they are created meaning they are not zeroed. Now they may seem zeroed as the amount of drop is very very low Because....

Bullets in pr have no drag so they travel at a constant speed.
Bullets in pr are not effected by a realistic amount of gravity.

Meaing they have very very little drop.

So take the m14 for example.

The projectile travels at 840m/sec constant, It has a gravity modifier of 0.3. In bf2 the gravity is about 14.86m/sec, So with a gravity modifier of 0.3 that means the m14 bullet is effected by 4.458m/sec.

So at 600m the time of flight is 0.714sec, Effected by 4.458m/sec gravity that is 3.18m of drop. Now if you didnt want to read all that, Go into the weapons tweak file, Add 2 levels of zoom, 50x and 100x. Add a tracer to the projectile and go out on a map and shoot it, You will see that the projectile infact does start to drop.

[unrealalex]

The guns are not zeroed to any range in project reality.

The bullets in project reality start to drop the second they are created meaning they are not zeroed. Now they may seem zeroed as the amount of drop is very very low Because....

Bullets in pr have no drag so they travel at a constant speed.
Bullets in pr are not effected by a realistic amount of gravity.

Meaing they have very very little drop.

So take the m14 for example.

The projectile travels at 840m/sec constant, It has a gravity modifier of 0.3. In bf2 the gravity is about 14.86m/sec, So with a gravity modifier of 0.3 that means the m14 bullet is effected by 4.458m/sec.

So at 600m the time of flight is 0.714sec, Effected by 4.458m/sec gravity that is 3.18m of drop. Now if you didnt want to read all that, Go into the weapons tweak file, Add 2 levels of zoom, 50x and 100x. Add a tracer to the projectile and go out on a map and shoot it, You will see that the projectile infact does start to drop.

so...the project reality manual is wrong?

[OkitaMakoto]

The guns are not zeroed to any range in project reality.

The bullets in project reality start to drop the second they are created meaning they are not zeroed. Now they may seem zeroed as the amount of drop is very very low Because....

Bullets in pr have no drag so they travel at a constant speed.
Bullets in pr are not effected by a realistic amount of gravity.

Meaing they have very very little drop.

So take the m14 for example.

The projectile travels at 840m/sec constant, It has a gravity modifier of 0.3. In bf2 the gravity is about 14.86m/sec, So with a gravity modifier of 0.3 that means the m14 bullet is effected by 4.458m/sec.

So at 600m the time of flight is 0.714sec, Effected by 4.458m/sec gravity that is 3.18m of drop. Now if you didnt want to read all that, Go into the weapons tweak file, Add 2 levels of zoom, 50x and 100x. Add a tracer to the projectile and go out on a map and shoot it, You will see that the projectile infact does start to drop.

But they are 'zeroed' to 600M. Youre making it too complicated. If the bullet lands damn near where its meant to at the range defined, its enoguh to be zeroed. This is the bf2 engine here. They are always dropping, but you only really need to adjust after 600M.

So yes, the manual is fine for all intents and purposes.

[nedlands1]

But they are 'zeroed' to 600M. Youre making it too complicated. If the bullet lands damn near where its meant to at the range defined, its enoguh to be zeroed. This is the bf2 engine here. They are always dropping, but you only really need to adjust after 600M.

So yes, the manual is fine for all intents and purposes.

The guide is misguided. It says that assault rifles are "zeroed" to 300m, DMR's are "zeroed" to 600m and sniper rifles are "zeroed" to 600m (Source: Weapons - Project Reality Wiki). There are currently two variables used, in PR, to change trajectory. Namely the gravity modifier and the velocity modifier (which changes the initial velocity). If you look at the gravity modifiers for each set of weapons you'll see that assault/battle/designated marksmen rifles have a gravity modifier of 0.3 across the board and sniper rifles have a gravity modifier of 0.1. Now you'd think that the DMR's would have a significantly larger muzzle velocity then their assault/battle rifle counterparts in order to overcome the drop. The thing is that they don't. Here is a list of the muzzle velocity values straight from the weapon .tweak files:

QBU-88: 970 m/s
M16A4: 925 m/s
AK-101: 925 m/s
L85A2: 915 m/s
L86 LSW: 915 m/s
QBZ-95: 915 m/s
SVD: 870 m/s
G3A3: 840 m/s
M14: 840 m/s
AK-47: 710 m/s

The manual also states that, "currently projectiles have a linear travel patch with a slight curve (due to gravity/deceleration)" (Source: Zero In - Project Reality Wiki). This ain't correct. The path is not linear (unless the gravity modifier is set to zero such as in the case of the .50 cal weapons). It is parabolic. You can use simple constant acceleration equations to predict the trajectory of projectiles.

[OkitaMakoto]

*sigh* you guys just get too overly complicated for what we're talking about. I was talking with some DEVs on TS all night and actually asked about this to make sure before I posted. There's the math/coding answer[what you guys give] and the ingame simple answer youll need.

The rifles are 'zeroed' to whatever number. It isnt 100% true to that, but they were set so that basically up to and at that range you dont need to compensate. And after those ranges you slowly, but barely, must compensate.

Trajectory and whatever dont matter, zeroing the sight could have nothing to do with coding, probably just the scope texture being higher or lower, that I dont know so I cant comment on. Regardless, following those guides found in the wiki I have always hit right about where I think ill hit[often fooked deviation aside]

And back on actual topic, I dont think thatll get done. Id assume all the zero distances for weapons of each specific class will remain standard throughout the factions. [save for a few, like Insurgents, i think its already different[?]]

[nedlands1]

OkitaMakoto;765470']The rifles are 'zeroed' to whatever number. It isnt 100% true to that, but they were set so that basically up to and at that range you dont need to compensate. And after those ranges you slowly, but barely, must compensate.

Trajectory and whatever dont matter, zeroing the sight could have nothing to do with coding, probably just the scope texture, idk. Regardless, following those guides found in the wiki I have always hit right about where I think ill hit[often fooked deviation aside]

Well the rounds comes out of the centre of the screen, courtesy of ObjectTemplate.FireCameraInDof being set to 1. Now if you shoot a target at close range you'll see that the centre of the crosshair is aligned exactly with the point of impact (deviation aside and with a weapon with a sufficiently low gravity). Another way to see this is with the reference cross in the editor (Render -> Hud -> Toggle Draw Reference Cross). This means that the scope texture is aligned with the centre of the screen and thus the crosshair hasn't been moved down in order to zero the weapon to a particular range.

There is no way that marksmen rifles have a "zeroed" range which is double that of the assault rifles. Not when the rounds from some of the assault rifles are travelling faster.

[ClaudioPolez]

My brain hurts.

[hiberNative]

My brain hurts.

yeah. i just want to say "can i has boom boom?" and tk someone.

i've also noticed what NickO said, that i have to aim a bit below enemies with the m14 at medium close distances. the targets heard the bullets pass over their heads and started looking around when i aimed for their chests. i aimed at their knees and got the kills.

[Cp]

nedlands1;765488']Well the rounds comes out of the centre of the screen, courtesy of ObjectTemplate.FireCameraInDof being set to 1. Now if you shoot a target at close range you'll see that the centre of the crosshair is aligned exactly with the point of impact (deviation aside and with a weapon with a sufficiently low gravity). Another way to see this is with the reference cross in the editor (Render -> Hud -> Toggle Draw Reference Cross). This means that the scope texture is aligned with the centre of the screen and thus the crosshair hasn't been moved down in order to zero the weapon to a particular range.

There is no way that marksmen rifles have a "zeroed" range which is double that of the assault rifles. Not when the rounds from some of the assault rifles are travelling faster.

Well, The bullet doesn't come from the camera, they originate from somewhere in the middle of the player. You can move the camera with animations but that doesn't affect the bullets, Thus you can move the scope up and down to zero the rifle. Which Mosquill is doing with all the sights for zangoos and johnny's ballistic project IIRC.

[Hotrod525]

Well, The bullet doesn't come from the camera, they originate from somewhere in the middle of the player. You can move the camera with animations but that doesn't affect the bullets, Thus you can move the scope up and down to zero the rifle. Which Mosquill is doing with all the sights for zangoos and johnny's ballistic project IIRC.

Yeah thats the major probleme of FPS, the bullet dont start at the end of the barrel, they start in middle of caractere, its not the first time i ear that, U.S. Army Dev Team got same probleme whit America's Army.. infact except for Armed Assault, i think every one suffer the same issue.

[OkitaMakoto]

lol, whatever, this is ridiculous. You can alter the texture of a rifle scope and not do anything with where the bullet is coming out. If you move the scope textures cross down a bit, one has to move the rifle up to get the cross where you want, thus raising where the bullet will travel. The bullet still comes out the center of the screen, but you are not putting your 'sights' on the center of the screen because the texture doesnt cross dead center. This would also explain why when you shoot something up close, you are hitting higher than it should because the texture is higher than where the bullet comes from. So up really close, aim just a tad lower because the bullet hasnt dropped its slight amount.

Anyway, whatever the deal is, however its done, its listed properly in game for all intents and purposes. Sure its more complicated than that but its never made a difference, imo.

That and the answer still stands, rifles arent going to get zeroed differently for each faction regardless of rounds used[at least, its highly unlikely]. itd just be asking too much from the average player to know about 50 different zerod distances...

Meh

[HughJass]

there there okita, there there.

[DavidP]

See here's the reason why I think that Marksmen rifles in .8 should be differentiated more.

1. Something new.

2. More differences between each faction.

3. It makes things more interesting.

[Masaq]

Different between each faction sounds fine, until you're teamswitched halfway through a round and have to suddenly remember to switch your aim because you've gone from using the M-14 to the SVD or whatever.

[DavidP]

Masaq;766149']Different between each faction sounds fine, until you're teamswitched halfway through a round and have to suddenly remember to switch your aim because you've gone from using the M-14 to the SVD or whatever.

But thats what makes a game fun! Remember in Vanilla when you first learned and felt difference between the Assault Rifles'? I really liked that. Same with SMGs, Sniper Rifles, etc. Thats what I really liked about BF2 when I first started playing.