Remove the Vulcan and MEC AAA from Kashan.

[LeadMagnet]

Funny how you then decide to start bitching and initiating flame wars on other threads. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Let's keep it civil or take it to PM's shall we...

[Silvarius2000]

Hey keep those hands off those AA's! Shilka's , Vulcans and Tunguska's are excellent support pieces to any armoured squad. I've killed APC's and wiped out squads in Kashan many times with the beloved AA guns. They have a practical use. Them beeping tones have caused many pilots to piss in their seats I bet.

You're better off just booting the dumbass that tries TK'ing.

[77SiCaRiO77]

No... excuse me... hell no. Those AAAs can rip through an APC like paper, and it ruins gameplay. That's why there are deployable .50 cals.

no , it ruins the gameplay of dumb careless infantery that dont have the brains to look around before moving . if you dont see that stationary , big thing , then you and you squad completaly deserve to be ripped off by it.

(yeah , i pretty much hate the infantery boys that complain about anything bigger than 7.62 mm )

[Waaah_Wah]

Damn it I miss those things.

x2

[ReaperMAC]

77SiCaRiO77;771075']no , it ruins the gameplay of dumb careless infantery that dont have the brains to look around before moving . if you dont see that stationary , big thing , then you and you squad completaly deserve to be ripped off by it.

(yeah , i pretty much hate the infantery boys that complain about everything bigger that 7.62 mm )

Uh, it ruins gameplay for everyone. APCs don't even have a chance to kill it, and infantry are shredded up even before they can see it. And the way people used it, it was very vanilla-ish, kind of like having engineers running at tanks with C4.

If it doesn't ruin gameplay, then why has it been taken out?

[77SiCaRiO77]

APCs and infantery whant it easy when attaking a firebase/bunklr , and it shouldnt be .

and i dont see how they were used "bf2ish", how exactly is that , point at things and click? .

they may need some work , like for exmaple allow either hmg/AAA/TOW per per firebase/bunker, or just 2 AAA per map , but removing them was not the solution .

[ReaperMAC]

APCs and infantery whant it easy when attaking a firebase/bunklr , and it shouldnt be.

No? Cause it isn't easy when you've got people spawning on them, or being able to request H-AT/L-AT with unlimited ammo at their disposal.

and i dont see how they were used "bf2ish", how exactly is that , point at things and click? .

Not even close to what I meant. . People would put them on top of buildings/hills and just rape anything that came at them. Not to mention, they didnt even have a delay and you didnt have to wrench them when you spawned them. The current AA works because it is used as it is intended... Anti-Air.

they may need some work , like for exmaple allow either hmg/AAA/TOW per per firebase/bunker, or just 2 AAA per map , but removing them was not the solution .

Why have HMGs then when you can just use the AAA? DEVs did not go through all the work with the HMGs for it to not be used.

Enough from me, going away from the original intent of the topic and I apologize.
Edit: okay, I lied since people keep insisting...

[77SiCaRiO77]

No? Cause it isn't easy when you've got people spawning on them, or being able to request H-AT/L-AT with unlimited ammo at their disposal.

it is easy when all that people spawn at the same point, and you can just spray bullets/shells and they will be supresed/dead. but , if you have two "stongpoints" (spawnpoint and AAA) its become harder .

Not even close to what I meant. . People would put them on top of buildings/hills and just rape anything that came at them. Not to mention, they didnt even have a delay and you didnt have to wrench them when you spawned them. The current AA works because it is used as it is intended... Anti-Air.

the top of biuldings is not a AAA fault , but a coding fault in the distance of deploying . and besides , i odnt see how a AAA in the top of everithing can be a danger , they didnt had any crosshair and you couldnt point them to low (just 1-2 degrees). Finaly i have news for you , AAAs are not intened to be used only againts air vehicles , they can (and are) used againts infantery and light vehicles , just like they were used in PR

Why have HMGs then when you can just use the AAA? DEVs did not go through all the work with the HMGs for it to not be used.

i guess you are right there , but what i said was just a suggestion of how to improve them , they of course can be tweaked to prevent the favoritism of the AAA over the HMG

[ReaperMAC]

77SiCaRiO77;771131']Finaly i have news for you , AAAs are not intened to be used only againts air vehicles , they can (and are) used againts infantery and light vehicles , just like they were used in PR

Yes, but the DEVs' intent was to have it solely used against aircraft.

Anyways, back on topic, it won't matter to me whether they are removed from Kashan or not. Best thing to do it to contact an admin.

[darkwarrior666]

Players are hardcoded. Removing things because of players won't change anything, they'll just find other means.

[Bob_Marley]

Yes, but the DEVs' intent was to have it solely used against aircraft.

Which is just plain silly, as those weapons were desinged to engauge ground targets as well and have been used to do so in numerous engaugements around the world.

[ReaperMAC]

Which is just plain silly, as those weapons were desinged to engauge ground targets as well and have been used to do so in numerous engaugements around the world.

I meant having Deployable AA weapons. Which is why they switched to the AA ML cause it is used to engage aircraft.

And of course I/DEVs know they are used on ground targets. But we have the .50cal deployables for that role now. Don't think we'll see those AAA's deployable soon and I hope they keep it that way.

[Dougalachi]

That's the problem. If their is no vulcan cannon, next it's the C4, heavy AT, etc... and so on.

Maybe in some cases, but a lot of the time, it is a guy with a pilot kit, probably in a squad by himself or with one other person. So, getting C4 isn't very likely, and the HAT kit is often being used by infantry. Since he is often in a 2 man squad, he can't get a LAT.

[HughJass]

77SiCaRiO77;771131']


the top of biuldings is not a AAA fault , but a coding fault in the distance of deploying . and besides , i odnt see how a AAA in the top of everithing can be a danger , they didnt had any crosshair and you couldnt point them to low (just 1-2 degrees). Finaly i have news for you , AAAs are not intened to be used only againts air vehicles , they can (and are) used againts infantery and light vehicles , just like they were used in PR

have you even heard of .6? Did you even touch that version? Super AAA guns were deployed in mr FOB at basrah, and all the gunners would do is spray the north side of the city blindly.

And not to mention kashan...just look at the .6 promo! there is a scene of the dude on a AAA engaging a hostile in one of those big bunkers.

[CAS_117]

If it doesn't ruin gameplay, then why has it been taken out?

Kind of "The Lord works in mysterious ways" argument there don't you think?

I can't disagree with the removal entirely though. The thing is that it really wasn't great to begin with. The round the gun fire(d/s) did about 30 times less damage to apcs than the standard 25mm HEI that they used. They didn't have aimers or any kind of optic either, and after about a second of fire they produce a large amount of gas that obscures the target. The M167 fires at 900 rpm currently, which is maybe 1/4 - 1/5 of its real life value. So basically:

- Low damage (compared to similarly dimensioned rounds in PR)
- Low accuracy (no aimer)
- Can't be reloaded (except for more enterprising players)
- Exposed driver
- Low rof (M167)
- Static

I can say with certainty I've never been hit by one in the air, and only vaguely recall being hit on the ground. I do remember killing a lot of people who were in them, sometimes after they started shooting at me. They simply are not suited for air defense in the slightest, and don't fair well in ground defense. These guns basically were area denial weapons; you place them in a valley or in the center of a city and then fire wildly at places you'd except infantry to hide, and occasionally catch a squad in the open. The only thing I really liked or missed about them was their ability to target and dispatch incoming fast vehicles.

And as per their removal I have seen way more truck/jeeps driving into flags as there isn't a whole lot that can hit them short of a manned ATGM, especially on infantry only maps. But the lack of zoom or sight to acquire targets combined with makes them sort of useless. Like most weapons, the AA was most effective when you didn't know it was there. And once you did (you can hear them from across the map), all they really needed was some well placed rifle shots and at the very least the guy usually got out. If he kept firing it didn't take much to either get a headshot or destroy the gun completely.

*incidentally I think one of the main reasons that they're used on ground targets is the lack of air targets on 75% of the maps.

[77SiCaRiO77]

have you even heard of .6?

yes

Did you even touch that version?

of course , i still think that was one of the best versions of PR

Super AAA guns were deployed in mr FOB at basrah, and all the gunners would do is spray the north side of the city blindly.

hardly ever played basrah , and when i did , i was in the insurgent team (i find insurgency mode very boring ) and i dont remember beging killed by a vulcan in in that map , never .

And not to mention kashan...just look at the .6 promo! there is a scene of the dude on a AAA engaging a hostile in one of those big bunkers.

i fail to see whats wrong with that ?

[Sergeant_Banner]

I miss Oman AAS, sitting on one of those MEC AAA's, watching as a 'hawk flew in & the sky was suddenly filled with bright tracers, and the sound of 3 or 4 of these monsters opening up was just epic.

FGS Please bring them back ! I've never been able to destroy APC's with them Take seven gates for example, hiding in an AAA emlacement, open up on warrior. BOOM BOOM a few HEAT rounds im dead ...

As CAS said, they were pretty disadvantaged as they were !

+1 for bringing them back !

Signed,
Sarge.

[AnRK]

Players are hardcoded. Removing things because of players won't change anything, they'll just find other means.

Yeah but the means in discussion is particularly effective. If you really wanted to you could destroy a grounded jet with an assault rifle, but that's not gonna work very well. You can use C4 and stuff for those means, but there are plenty of more vigilant players such as myself willing to put a bullet inbetween their eyes as soon as they pull and **** like that.

No-one here as advocating trying to make PR intentional TK proof, but this weapon IS pointless in this context considering there is a better weapon for the job (and there are THREE of them), and I'd say at least 99% of the kills attributed to them are TKs. To me that's more then enough to get it removed.