Making People Want to be Commander

[Smooth[EST]]

Maybe points could be given to an SL and squad members when they get congradulated by the CO, so he actually congradulates them. Say, SL gets 5 Teamwork points and squadmembers get 2 whenever CO uses the "Good work squad" on that squad. It has real potential to get abused though, maybe make some sort of limiting thing where a squad can only get congradulated once every 2-3 minutes.

Good idea! Maybe it should work another direction too, if co says "My granny can do better!" and there goes -5 points?
I thought that also maybe its possible to reward squads who for example go where commander tells them to go, using hes marker? Rewarding system should be automated to prevent abusing.

I have been commanding hundreds of hours and the biggest problem is that you cant do nothing if SL decides to ignore you. One SL-s bad choice can cost whole round. We know that IRL you will get h punished hard for such behavior. But in the game its all about volunteering. Still we need some soft way to tell ppl that not obeying is bad thing.

[M.Warren]

Commanders shouldn't be out there killing people. Your K :d ratio is of no concern to anyone. If you kill someone that's great, but it shouldn't be to rack up more points for killing.

Although a minor detail, but of course Commanders shouldn't be out playing Rambo with everyone else. But even I still have restraint to continue my job as Commander. In the end that's simply PR taking steps against the masses to prevent this from occuring. But then again at the same time, how many times have you seen fellow developers state "It's not our fault if your team is sucking".

If your Commander wants to go Rambo and not do his job, then find a server that promotes your kind of teamwork. We already deal with novice pilots jumping into jets and slamming them into the walls outside of hangers and having to wait 20 minutes.

Why is requesting a kit from a crate an "interesting concept"?! Taking them from a FOB, yeah. That makes sense. From an ammo box? No, that doesn't.

No logic behind requesting kits from Supply Crates? Humm... I mean, after all they are Supply Crates.

Squad Leader - "Commander, I need a Support Truck to dump off some supplys nearby to me."
Commander - "Roger that."
(An engineer brings up the Support Truck and unloads the Supply Crate from storage.)
Squad Leader - "Thanks Commander."
(The Squad Leader informs one of the members to replace his Light Anti-Tank with a Heavy Anti-Tank kit.)
Squad Leader - "This is exactly the equipment we need to have."

This is simply yet another placeholder for simulating Squad Leaders requesting necessary equipment, no different than the age-old arguement of Medics and Evac. It's assumed that after a Medic has revived someone they're put on a strecher and carried off then to be replaced with a new soldier in thier place.

It's also quite possible for Squad Leaders or Squad Members to be outstreched too far from Main Base, a Defensive Bunker or a Firebase. Take Kashan Desert for example, what if a Supply Crate is dropped from a Black Hawk? Nothing really, they might actually use it for ammo. But again, that's even slim.

Masaq;776249']Likewise, why do you think it's a good idea to get ammo from wrecked vehicles? That was a bug! If a hummer is so burnt it's a charred wreck out why on earth should you be able to get ammo out of the back?!

Then it appears that it may have been the best bug PR had ever made. To state that any human being can't walk up and salvage ammo from a wrecked vehicle would be false.

Not all vehicles had a JDAM dropped ontop of it and blown away to pieces. Realistically, what if it was simply shot up and disabled by small arms munitions? Or the vehicle overturned and was labeled unuseable for the time being?

It may have remained in game if it wasn't for excessive Heavy Anti-Tank spam. Which was the leading cause of grief some patches ago. Then again, it still is and probably twice as worse than before but that's another story.

The detail itself of aquiring ammo from a wreck isn't that crucial. I'm just simply pointing out that it was an intresting thing that took place and allowed soldiers to be more resourceful than they currently are now.

Masaq;776249']Point and click airdrop supplies? Why oh why when you can have a real, human-controlled pilot fly one in for you?!

So... Is this telling me that we're not allowed to have both for some reason? What about maps that don't have air support? Or Support Trucks that are unable to reach certain locations? How come we cannot specialize this 30 minute supply crate dropped by a Commander? Why not have it be able to deploy a Bunker or Firebase within 100 to 150 meters of the location in which it lands?

We probably could even make a larger model of a supply drop by going into the BF2 editor and slapping 4 supply crates and adding a parachute. Just seems like we're limiting our own possibilities to increasingly expansive gameplay once more.

Besides, as per the last Battlefield 2 patch v1.41 the Commander is able to use FIVE diffent Objects such as: Radar Scan, Artillery, UAV, Supply Drop and a Vehicle Drop.

So, if my assumptions are right the Commander in Project Reality has only TWO of a possible FIVE resources. What's the issue then? It's not like the Commander doesn't have room to facilitate more functions. Matter of fact if I may say, it's currently lacking terribly.

Masaq;776249']I'm sorry but saying that all that's left of Project Reality is memories of past versions is both disrespectful and just plain foolish when the current (and next) version of PR offer a much more refined, teamwork-orientated and tactical version of the game.

I must apologize aswell, because I'm unable to hop on the hype bandwagon until I see it with my own eyes. Just because 10 people say it's good for them doesn't mean it's good for you.

Let's think about it. Korengal Valley humm... Lot's of caves that provide access to certain areas along with the necessity to use an engineer at numerous chained doors...

According to common player behaviour I can already estimate that if there are inadequate escape areas inside of a cave or fenced-in area. Then all the insurgents are going to do is I.E.D. every possible entrance or exit. Thusly everytime you set foot into a cave or walk through someones backyard they'll be camping it waiting for you to emerge, then BOOM.

Afterall, nothing you can do about I.E.D.s other than hope you kill the guy before he detonates it. Besides, someone already stated that it took them six minutes to get from one end of the map to the other... In a car. I'm sure there are plenty of bottle necks and strangle points with explosives waiting. Sounds FANTASTIC.

Then we have Operation Barracuda... Beach camping anyone? No need to bring the barbeque, we'll just cook everything off of the burning wrecks of the LAV-25 Piranas and UH-1N Hueys.

Also have the Styker with it's remote .50 caliber machinegun. Sadly seems that the Militias BRDM has more firepower than that thing. I guess I'll stop before I agravate someone.

I'll be waiting to see v0.8 in action.

[AnRK]

I don't see the point in this speculation when we don't know what's in store for a release which is close to coming out. Once it comes out and we all have a bit of a play, then perhaps begin to evaluate the role, but there's no point in wasting our time discussing something that may well have already been resolved.

[cyberzomby]

Warren: Thats an excellent post explaining why you feel how you feel about certain things. However. The getting kits out of supply boxes may be realistic ( I agree with you on that part ) it can be really used wrong ingame. The developpers are still working on a game and with a lot of players out there still seeing at as a game, we get this abuse of game mechanics.

HAT sniping to name one. A thousand dollar costing missile on a cheap *** insurgent? Thats not really realistic. But it still happens. And I think the kit requesting out of a box is out for the same reason.

[Masaq]

I don't see the point in this speculation when we don't know what's in store for a release which is close to coming out. Once it comes out and we all have a bit of a play, then perhaps begin to evaluate the role, but there's no point in wasting our time discussing something that may well have already been resolved.

I normally loathe saying this but:

QFT.




Warren: try having some faith and try having an open mind.

[AnRK]

I normally loathe saying this but:

QFT.

I don't really mind talking about the current role and stuff like that, but I don't get why it's worth people discussing it's future when they don't know what's gonna happen in a few days/weeks/months/years when .8 gets released. "Wasting our time" was a little over the top, cos there are ideas which will inevitably be worth discussing that won't be in game. But the people saying how awful the commanders role is, and how no-one wants to take it, that don't know what's gonna happen to it very soon seems a bit pointless to me.

[sector7g]

Maybe points could be given to an SL and squad members when they get congradulated by the CO, so he actually congradulates them. Say, SL gets 5 Teamwork points and squadmembers get 2 whenever CO uses the "Good work squad" on that squad. It has real potential to get abused though, maybe make some sort of limiting thing where a squad can only get congradulated once every 2-3 minutes.

Brilliant Idea. Carrot instead of stick, I like it.

problem with giving to much power (in the form of stick) to CO is that anyone can be CO that includes smack tards who would love the ability to mess peoples/squads games up.

This is a very positive Idea that I would very much like to see implimented. As a regular CO I can see that squad Leaders and squads would be more likley to react positivley to CO orders if there is a little reward associated with completing CO objectives.

[Cp]

The commander isnt supposed to be the god in charge of überpowers / super weapons.
He's supposed to be the commander! Seems like most of the posters here have missed the point of the commander, its not about building stuff and its not about shelling the **** out of the enemy with 155mm cannons, Its about keeping the right squad at the right place at the right time.

Currently a commander is required if you want a firebase or a bunker, This often forces players to take one for the team and apply for commander even if they dont want to just so that the team can have a bunker or two. This leads to the spot being filled by someone who don't really care / know how to lead a team to victory. He is not playing the role of the commander, he is playing the role of bob the builder.

Not only is he occupying the slot from a proper commander candidate who might have joined later on but he is also filling up a player slot on the server.
Now why would you want to force people into doing nothing then being "that guy who does nothing but gives you build orders when you ask for it"?

The only difference between forcing someone to hand out build orders and not requiring build orders to build is that someone ain't forced to do something he doesn't like to do.

in time, most of you will understand. I hope.

[Gore]

;776803']Good idea! Maybe it should work another direction too, if co says "My granny can do better!" and there goes -5 points?

No. That's a subject for tardness by so many people.
Awarding a small amount of points, every 5 or 10 mins..
That'd be the only thing the tards would actually consider before they do it, and that'd be no fun for them.

[cyberzomby]

I know CP but remember this is still a game. So for a lot of pubbers, being a squadleader is more fun than a CO. In clan games it isnt even necessary cause they got teamspeak and can talk to each other on there.

So thats why people say: give the CO more to do than just relay comms. and accept build orders.

[Gore]

According to common player behaviour I can already estimate that if there are inadequate escape areas inside of a cave or fenced-in area. Then all the insurgents are going to do is I.E.D. every possible entrance or exit. Thusly everytime you set foot into a cave or walk through someones backyard they'll be camping it waiting for you to emerge, then BOOM.

Afterall, nothing you can do about I.E.D.s other than hope you kill the guy before he detonates it. Besides, someone already stated that it took them six minutes to get from one end of the map to the other... In a car. I'm sure there are plenty of bottle necks and strangle points with explosives waiting. Sounds FANTASTIC.

Well we've played the current maps a few times haven't we. I have nothing against this game, or .8. What do you expect from cave fights? I know for sure you'll sit there waiting as well, what would you do in real life? Surrender?

Let me throw a grappling hook so you can get over the cave.

[Gore]

Sorry for getting of topic.

[Masaq]

I know CP but remember this is still a game. So for a lot of pubbers, being a squadleader is more fun than a CO. In clan games it isnt even necessary cause they got teamspeak and can talk to each other on there.

So thats why people say: give the CO more to do than just relay comms. and accept build orders.

How about having them responsible for co-ordinating squad movements? Or marking waypoints? Or marking contact reports? Or hell, issuing commands?


There is plenty for a good commander to do that doesn't involve them approving build orders.

Squad leaders need to suck it up and realise the CO is the boss, not them. When they do that, Commanders get a whole lot more love because then they get to make the tactical choices that win the battle, whilst squads focus on winning their own battle - taking ground and staying alive.

[cyberzomby]

I know Masaq and thats what I do as a commander. But Im just saying: its not as flashy as playing a squad leader. Once you set up those markers and waypoints theres not much to do until they get there. If they get in a firefight your not gonna tell the squad leader what to do. The best thing you can do is ask if he needs another squad to support. if so you set up a marker for the other squad. jeeej! now thats spicey gameplay

Not ripping on your work or anything. And like you said. If you got good Squadleaders I LOVE to command! Ill say this once more to clear it up: This is just what I think keeps people from going commander.

[markonymous]

Masaq;777250']
Squad leaders need to suck it up and realise the CO is the boss, not them. When they do that, Commanders get a whole lot more love because then they get to make the tactical choices that win the battle, whilst squads focus on winning their own battle - taking ground and staying alive.

how would you get them to realize it then?

[chimpyang]

on the point of building assets such as FBs/Bunkers, do we still get 10 tickets every so often from the thing? I mean, over a stretch of time, 10 extra tickets every so often is immensely useful. That's why I try and deploy all the assets asap, as is isnt exactly hard to move them later.

[Rudd]

how would you get them to realize it then?

I wouldn't

1) your team sucks and hates you, the commander = resign
2) Your team doesn't follow orders but appreciates you as a air controller and intelligence officer = stay and just pass info along, at least it has teamwork
3) Your team has no initiative at all and won't step 1m without a move order = your in for a long game but at least you get to control the destiny of 31 people- stay

[Masaq]

how would you get them to realize it then?

Players are hardcoded. The team can only suggest better ways to them, and we do that - commanders not receiving kills for example, indicates that they shouldn't be killing lots of people.


In-game, what it takes is good commanders issuing good instructions, and in time people respond. It might take two or even three rounds of the same guy calmly commanding before the SLs start to respond.


Even better though is going SL on a server where you're an admin, or where you're on good terms with the admins. Then if a SL completely refuses to follow orders, kick him. The replacement SL generally starts following orders pretty quickly once you explain what happened to his predecessor.

However, if you're going to take that kind of approach you need be beyond reproach yourself, and be sure that the orders you are issuing are as good as they can be.

[fuzzhead]

jesus christ warren did someone shit in your cornflakes this morning or something?! take it easy man, were doing the best we can, theres been literally 1000's of man hours put into v0.8, design decisions have been carefully considered and were looking to bring out a certain kind of realistic player behavior from commanders, please stop with the constant speculation and post feedback AFTERWARDS, not blind speculation before, as all that does is make an *** of yourself.

anyways, agree with CP.

The commander role isn't for everyone. We dont want people filling the role who have no real desire to be there, but do it anyways out of a sense of duty. Giving the commander flashy/powerful/destructive/gimmicky unrealistic shit is just going to attract the wrong types of players. We want the commander role to be something that only a selective percentage of our player base will be interested in engaging, these are the leadership types who are approaching the game on a different level, beyond simple "realistic FPS". We realize these types are hard to come by, so we dont want to cripple a team if one of these players is not around at the moment. However if one of these types of players DOES step up to the plate, expect an amazing experience - something we DO NOT want watered down.

We have been building the commander role since v0.6 to be a very unique gameplay experience to the rest of the roles in PR. It's almost like the CO is playing a completely different game, like when he logs into PR he will be ready for a 2 hour round of a small scale defcon with live players, overwatching the battle and coordinating and relaying commands.

I hate to bring up pop TV shows to show examples of RL stuff, but check out generation kill and all the comms going on in that series between the chain of command... these levels of comms is the whole idea behind the CO, everything getting passed up and down the chain of command, sitreps, orders, casualties, enemy spottings, etc etc. This is the direction CO is headed. For those who think thats interesting - well your in for a helluva game, esp. with experienced squad leaders. For those that want to play bob the builder, sorry PR is headed away from that direction, check out sandbox and some other HL2 mods for that style of gameplay.

[Bringerof_D]

I wouldn't

1) your team sucks and hates you, the commander = resign
2) Your team doesn't follow orders but appreciates you as a air controller and intelligence officer = stay and just pass info along, at least it has teamwork
3) Your team has no initiative at all and won't step 1m without a move order = your in for a long game but at least you get to control the destiny of 31 people- stay

lol playing god? i love playing commander every now and again but i still think they should get atleast 1 more thing to do, anything, sign paperwork?

how about a personal room where the commander can sit and relay commands without having to worry about an enemy sniper who's wandered towards your main in hopes of a spawn kill or someone with a SOFLAM marking your main for a JDAM?

or how about a a shiney new commander kit which gives him aviator sunglasses and a cigar?

no i'm not being sarcastic with any of these, i'm serious, the 2nd one will atleast let the commander sit in a safe place to do his work. the 3rd one would just be plain awsome, give him a 45 revolver. the first one would just be for realism...and gives the CO something to pass the time