Insurgents still the 'target practice' faction

[Outlawz7]

I have played Korengal and Ramiel so far, and although it may not be enough or much, I somehow think, that the Insurgents are still just target practice for US/GB and taking out caches is like going to the store to buy candy.

The issue with Korengal is that all the caches are going to be in obvious places. I haven't really seen the entire map so far but when the red marker appears you can pretty much guess that the cache is going to be inside the lone house or the compound that's next to the marker on the map.

Ramiel sort of faces the same issue as Basrah, not enough people to cover the entire city, only with Ramiel the problem quadruples as the city is much bigger.

The 'removing tons of RPs' didn't really solve anything except the server crashes and as players learn the mod, those 2-3 hideouts will be going down faster than you can say 'hideout is down'.

What needs to be is encourage Insurgents not to attack first and go into fire fights with a conventional army. Maybe also increase their speed for certain kits that don't carry so much (Scout, Insurgent), so they can run away easier.

More punishment for killing civilians - right now if you die as civi, you respawn in 2 minutes. Every GB/US soldier can shoot 3 civies before he gets punished, so basically one guy could intentionally shoot two civies who were trying to spot him, cause them grief and discouragement to even bother playing civies and get away with it.

Honestly, you only need about a second to figure out if the Insurgent is armed or a civilian and if you are trigger happy idiot, you should face the consequences.
IMO if you would be immediately punished (killed with 60 sec spawn or something) when you shoot a civilian, it would discourage a lot of trigger happiness and rushing made by the GB/US players and force everyone to be more careful, because right now it's just too easy to kill Insurgents who are the disadvantaged faction.

Another thing as far as huge maps such as Ramiel and Archer go, the amount of caches Insurgents need to defend at the same time should be lowered from 3 to 2 or even just one, because it's impossible to cover all the areas that the US/GB team can use to flank and still manage to defend the cache with only 1/3 of your team against a more powerful enemy.

Discuss.

[yakuz]

well on your point of them being cannond fodder, they have infinate tickets so deaths don't matter unless your a stat whore, so as long as your death dosn't directly allow the GB/US team to blow the cache then they gain nothing from the kill

[TAW_Cutthroat]

IMO if you would be immediately punished (killed with 60 sec spawn or something) when you shoot a civilian, it would discourage a lot of trigger happiness and rushing made by the GB/US players and force everyone to be more careful, because right now it's just too easy to kill Insurgents who are the disadvantaged faction.

I disagree. In the last few months I have killed one or two civvies. Just a one off mistake shouldn't be punishable. I'd say 2 civvie kills in say 30 seconds = Death + 5 minute spawn or 3 in a life = the same.

The problem that I find is most people are a bit too hands on. Caches are hard to defend, I am not denying it, but the lack of ambushes is surprising. People seem to think that the insurgents is for one man freelancing.

As for reducing caches, they are generally in a building or defensive position. To tackle this, one squad should be in the immediate vicinity of the cache, while another sets ambushes in the area. It can be done if people stopped messing around with rocks and getting two minute spawns. But reducing it to two would probably help a lot.

Maybe also increase their speed for certain kits that don't carry so much (Scout, Insurgent), so they can run away easier.

Agree with that, more guerilla fighting and less people trying to kill at insane ranges against scoped rifles. Or charging whole squads on auto.

Yakuz, having unlimited tickets does not make an excuse for dying. You are no use to your team if you go around getting yourself killed "bacause it doesn't matter."

Insurgents generally win anyway despite odds against them

[gazzthompson]

INS have infinite tickets, they are not ment to have a positive K/D , they are ment to die alot! and with ramiel, 4 hideouts and 2 mosque spawn locations can cover the city quite well .

[bosco_]

Mhh, every INS game I've played in 0.8 so far was won by the Insurgents.

[gazzthompson]

Mhh, every INS game I've played in 0.8 so far was won by the Insurgents.

well ive seen allied factions win alot tbh, but quite even.

[Chuffy]

'Still'

?

In .75 I never once saw the British win on Basrah. Archer wasn't a lot better for the US.

[crazy11]

well on your point of them being cannond fodder, they have infinate tickets so deaths don't matter unless your a stat whore, so as long as your death dosn't directly allow the GB/US team to blow the cache then they gain nothing from the kill

They do gain from the kill, they get intel points which add up when the insurgents die a lot.

[=Romagnolo=]

the ins in this version are very week, IMO. They should have some advantages like less time to respawn or run more.

[Waaah_Wah]

Not to hijack this, but how does the RKO anti tank grenade work..? It doesnt seem to damage vehicles that much

[gazzthompson]

you throw it, it goes bang

[ReaperMAC]

Not to hijack this, but how does the RKO anti tank grenade work..? It doesnt seem to damage vehicles that much

You're doing it wrong then. Those anti-vehicle grenades take out technicals/humvees easily. 1 toss will do. Now if you are trying to destroy a Support Truck or something... its going to take more than 1 grenade.

[Salah ad Din]

1. Insurgents are supposed to die a lot, okay, why do they get a spawn penalty for dying then.
2. Four Hideouts? Nope, just player Basrah and KOrengal and Ramiel. Only two Hideouts can be placed, no more.
3. Spawn Points? Due to only two HIdeouts available, most of the time there is no spawn point near to the caches.

[Arnoldio]

there is more teamwork and patience in the INS side setting uop ambushes, gathering intel about enemy movement etc. brits just have to do the job

[ReaperMAC]

2. Four Hideouts? Nope, just player Basrah and KOrengal and Ramiel. Only two Hideouts can be placed, no more.

Im pretty sure you can deploy 4, you just need to be 400m from the nearest hideout.

[ReadMenace]

*WARNING: I HAVE NOT PLAYED 0.8*

As I see it, the only reason the Insurgents are 'target practice' is because the way the individual players choose to play. People need to recognize that the Insurgent's lack of personal armor and scoped weapons make them ill-equipped to go toe-to-toe with the Brits, USMC, or US Army. Even liberal use of rocket propelled grenades does not make up for this imbalance.

What it comes down to is specific tactics that the Insurgents *should* use to engage their enemies. Some of these can be gleaned from reading about or viewing real accounts of the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Some effective tactics include engaging helicopters over dense urban environments, first with harassing small arms, distracting it from the primary threat of a MANPAD or RPG.
Use collaborators to your advantage! Nobody wants to accrue 5 minutes of time-out for killing civilians. Not just the old 'bait & switch' of a civilian luring conventional forces into an ambush, but also using them as human shields.

DO NOT allow the enemy to begin a firefight, if you aren't firing the first shot, retreat and try again; Always fire from concealment, never attempt a stand-up fight; you will lose sooner, or later.
Your weapons are not scoped (SVD/Enfield aside); negate their range advantage by never engaging them from a distance, allow them to come into your ambush before engaging!

Marksmen/Snipers: You are supporting the ambush, not THE ambush. You should not be in the main ambush party, instead you should engage from a medium range, and perpendicular to the main ambush party. While your teammates should too focus on precision shots (not the spray & pray we usually see by insurgent forces), you will be putting nails in your adversaries' coffins.

I hope this helps new players, and old alike. Please critique if you'd like.

-REad

[Scot]

You play like a conventional army as Insurgents? Prepared to get owned. Play like an (key word here) insurgent and you will 9/10 win. It's all about players and how they play, as it stands now, the factions are quite balanced. Just a quick example, on Korengal today, I was lucky enough to get into R-DEV fuzzhead's squad. Now we had a hideout overrun, and the clever US decided to spawn camp. Now Fuzz spawned, took out 1 guy, and died. I spawned got destroyed by 1 M249 and alota M4s. Now here is where the clever bit comes. We decided, rather than go 1 on 1 against stronger firepower than us, how about we decide that if all 5 of us spawn at the same time(CRAZY IDEAS HERE PEEPS) we can take them out. First time we took 2-3 of them out. Second time we took 2 full squads out(I knifed a guy ) and I got a fully loaded M249, fuzz got an Officer kit and we got a medic and engineer kit. Now that was useing something, admitadly not that insurgent style, but we used our brains(well fuzz's ) and we overcame. If a lot of the other people playing did the same, the insurgents will win.

PS. Sorry fuzz I crashed out and my stupid internet decides to not let me play anything nowadays since 0.8s release!! My bad!!

[Neo_Mapper]

I already played 3 ins rounds. 2times won the ins and 1time the us. Realy dont know, whats your problem. playing ins is not just running around and killing some us/brits. You have to work in your squad. YES also insugensies have squads >.< Also, if possible use a commander to set the hideouts always near the cache and destroy it if, the cache is destroyed, so you can set up a new one at the "new" cache...

[x.trEm*e]

You play like a conventional army as Insurgents? Prepared to get owned. Play like an (key word here) insurgent and you will 9/10 win. It's all about players and how they play, as it stands now, the factions are quite balanced. Just a quick example, on Korengal today, I was lucky enough to get into R-DEV fuzzhead's squad. Now we had a hideout overrun, and the clever US decided to spawn camp. Now Fuzz spawned, took out 1 guy, and died. I spawned got destroyed by 1 M249 and alota M4s. Now here is where the clever bit comes. We decided, rather than go 1 on 1 against stronger firepower than us, how about we decide that if all 5 of us spawn at the same time(CRAZY IDEAS HERE PEEPS) we can take them out. First time we took 2-3 of them out. Second time we took 2 full squads out(I knifed a guy ) and I got a fully loaded M249, fuzz got an Officer kit and we got a medic and engineer kit. Now that was useing something, admitadly not that insurgent style, but we used our brains(well fuzz's ) and we overcame. If a lot of the other people playing did the same, the insurgents will win.

PS. Sorry fuzz I crashed out and my stupid internet decides to not let me play anything nowadays since 0.8s release!! My bad!!

I would wish 50 squads like you around every server...
playing as insurgent was horrible, cuz everyone was running somewhere, noone listening to orders trying to organizate the defense, and yes we lost every time after the brits sweeping the map

I´m feeling like 90% kids are all around trying new stuff and then going... there are singles who play seriously like in deep 0.75 times

[Scot]

Well the thing is, for people who have been playing dedicatedly to PR, there will be a helluvah lotta noobs. Now the thing is atm, everyone is a noob(bar testers and DEVs), but the noobs with team work will win, so be kind to someone even if they just installed PR for the first time, and if you squad owns and you lose, so what? This mod IMO is about teamwork, not winning