Engineers and C4

[MadTommy]

You can say it as many times as you want mate.. wont change anything except to ware you down and bore us.

You really think engineers are no longer engineers because they no longer have C4?, come on!

So, they can no longer blow a bridge.. so what.. they can mine it. This real world stuff is such bollocks. 99% of the time engineers in modern armies repair & build stuff, not blow it up.

Here is a list of UK Royal Engineer qualifications:

Sappers can join the Royal Engineers in one of the following trades:


Bricklayer and Concretor
Building and Structural Finisher
Carpenter and Joiner
Command, Communications and Information Systems Specialist
Construction Materials Technician
Draughtsman (Design)
Draughtsman (Electrical and Mechanical)
Driver RE
Electrician
Fabricator (Welder)
Fitter (Air Conditioning and Refrigeration)
General Fitter
Geographical Technician
Heating and Plumbing Engineer
Plant Operator Mechanic
Resources Specialist
Specialist Equipment Driver/Operator
Surveyor (Engineering)
Armoured

Later, sappers can specialise in further trades and specialities, including:
Amphibious Engineer
Clerk of Works (Construction)
Clerk of Works (Electrical)
Clerk of Works (Mechanical)
Commando Engineer
Diver
Military Plant Foreman
Parachute Engineer
Regimental Signals Instructor.

I dont see explosive expert there.. do you?

[bad_nade]

I dont see explosive expert there.. do you?

Yes I do:

Sappers can join the Royal Engineers in one of the following trades...

[MadTommy]

LOL, 'sapper' is slang for engineer.

Not explosive expert. Please, don't keep on digging. (pun intended )

Also for your reference http://www.remuseum.org.uk/corpshistory ... sapper.htm

[bad_nade]

LOL, 'sapper' is slang for engineer.

Not explosive expert.

If you want to stick with your opinion then go on, but before that take a second look on that very list of trades you copy-pasted above and ask yourself which of them fits to the current PR combat engineer's role? Exactly, none of them. According to it, PR's engineer load out and role is even more messed up than I thought. Of those roles the driver is the only one to ever set his foot outside of the main base.

[LtSoucy]

Engineer's don't carry C4 into combat, its too deadly. The US Army has special teams to do this and there defended by other soldiers when using it. C4 is heavy an is just wasting space on a combat engineers body.

[bad_nade]

Engineer's don't carry C4 into combat, its too deadly. The US Army has special teams to do this and there defended by other soldiers when using it. C4 is heavy an is just wasting space on a combat engineers body.

... which conveniently leads us to my actual suggestion:
If possible, engineers should spawn with their explosives weapon slot empy, so that they need to resupply it from a supply crate before they could blow up anything.

[Mongolian_dude]

Its was truely a terribly unrealistic thing, seeing engineers running at MBTs trying to slap a charge on it...

...mongol...

[Polden]

well this thread has changed my point of view completely.... i now say keep the c4 to the spec ops...

[MadTommy]

If you want to stick with your opinion then go on, but before that take a second look on that very list of trades you copy-pasted above and ask yourself which of them fits to the current PR combat engineer's role? Exactly, none of them. According to it, PR's engineer load out and role is even more messed up than I thought. Of those roles the driver is the only one to ever set his foot outside of the main base.

This thread is about the removal of C4 from the engineer class.

I never stated that the role of engineer could not be improved upon and made more realistic in game. I do believe however that the removal of C4 made an improvement in terms of realistic gameplay across the board in PR.
Sure it may of removed a job/role from the engineer and given it to special forces, be i don't see a problem with that, they needed something to do worth while

Personally, i'd like the engineers to have their primary role back.. in keeping the vehicles on the battlefield, but this is now the job of the CP.

[scanline]

Its was truely a terribly unrealistic thing, seeing engineers running at MBTs trying to slap a charge on it...

...mongol...

It must be even more unrealistic to see an engineer run to a MBT, go prone and place a mine beneath it, then jump up and down in plain sight of the tank to get the driver to panic and move the tank.
I really do miss the C4 but I can understand it's removal if the idea is to make armour last longer on the battlefield as now the only soldiers that can really attack armour have to have a special kit.

[Titan]

Whats about spliting the one big C4 into 8 littlones for the engi? 15sec for each to debloy (like the field dressings) thats 120sec. in total. after that take the detonator... then 5 sec delay (to avoid self blowing)... then fire ... and one after another blows up ... (maybe with 0.5 sec delay between each charge... looks much cooler ) the detonater must more look like the old one in Bf1942 (don´t know: a wiredetonator?)...

maybe if one engi just caries 4 of them .. and must rearm at a crate? ...

.. if the engi could run to a tank placing explosives all around for 1 minut ... run away take new ones come back to the tank and again placing explosives all around for 1 minut... run away und blow it up .. yea maybe as he has deserved it

(sorry for bad english .. i hope someone can understand what i was trying to say -.-)

[@bsurd]

remove the trip flare (looks so cool btw.) if there is no free slot and give the engi 2 or 4 slams with a 30 or 40 sec timer.

So he wont have the big firepower any more and cant attack tanks or apc´s, but can take out light vehicles or . 50 maschine guns/ bunkers and so on.

Think that is what everybody can life with.

My standard class is engi. I understand why C4 was a little to much, but no nades, no explosives is a little to less equipment imo.

I love 0.8, but a little more things that make boom would be nice to see.

[Chase Armitage]

Yes I agree the engineer should be able to blow up stuff to some degree but definitely not in a way that he can (easily) take on MBT's or Vehicles in general. His capabilities should be mainly tuned towards taking down buildings such as FBs, .50s and AAs.
I altough like the idea with splitting up his charges and/or forcing him to resupply before he even gets anything that goes boom. In addition delaying his detonator like it is done with the SpecOp sounds fair to me as well.

[bad_nade]

Its was truely a terribly unrealistic thing, seeing engineers running at MBTs trying to slap a charge on it...

Agree on this. It's unrealistic in most situations (not totally, though) and should be made impossible. However, crippling the whole class just to achieve that is overkill.

[Sanke]

How about a SLAM or 2? That way it can't kill an APC but it can take out the .50's,aa,sandbags, and barbed wire.

I remember the engie squad of doom. We all hopped in the littlebird and dropped C4 to blow up something till we all ran out of ammo. That strategy was freaking awesome.

[Zimmer]

Engineer's don't carry C4 into combat, its too deadly. The US Army has special teams to do this and there defended by other soldiers when using it. C4 is heavy an is just wasting space on a combat engineers body.

C4 wont explode before you press the explode button :/

It wont explode even if you burn it. C4 is used because its stabile.

[gazzthompson]

What about in insurgency, the only kit that can blow up the caches easily, is limited? Multiple times I've seen brit/us troops camping caches, most likely waiting for the spec-op to get there. Slam charges would work fine. But one of the unlimited kits needs some demolitions.

1 nade or about 2 mags of rifle ammo destroy cache .if they waiting for SF to get there then FAIL

[the other Steve]

i must say its pretty bad that we need a special kit to get any explosives, and i like the idea of a special timed C4 for the engiee whit 120 seconds and 2/3 of the power of a normal c4

[vilhelm123]

How are you going to take out all the Installations, such as .50 cal emplacement, Barbed wire thats blocking your way, or sandbags? Spec-Ops is in main, Light/Heavy At you don't have.

Tell me how am I supposed to destroy these things without Explosives?

How about a alternative fire on the engies spade that removes assets? That would help with items deploying in the wrong place when defending. And would also allow you to remove enemy ones while not having to hand out explosives. If it could take say a 1minute or so to unbuild something then it would prevent rushing like people did on bunkers with c4 because it would be to risky because of the 'unbuild time'.

[Tannhauser]

Make a Demolitions kit, requestable at main with a limit of #/Squad, carrying C4 and Slams.
The problem with having a unlimited class having C4/Slams is players will spawn&rush at armored targets to plant on them. If the access to explosives requires to be at Main, it stops people from spawn+rush+plant but still lets them use demolitions efficiently against bases, bridges, etc..

Anyway, if you really want to destroy an enemy fortified position, you better secure it THEN send demolitions to clear the zone, meaning you need to use logistics efficiently to bring a demolition team from main to the designated target.

Just my two cents