I think i lost that loving feeling.....

[@bsurd]

imo it isnt´t 0.8 why some changes happens. I think it only is there is a new version out, and so many many new guys try out PR and so the most of the time shit happens.

Pr is so focused on teamplay, when you have a stupid team, it gets kind of hard to have fun.

But if you have a working squad or team, its the best game i ever played.

The newbies who dont wanne learn the rules of pr destroyed the game complete...

Hope this get´s better when 0.8 is a little bit older and the guys who only tried it get back to vanilla or play pr like it has to be played...

[LtSoucy]

I fully agree, the mod has changed player wise, all the teamwork that was there in 0.5 and 0.6 has been removed by the mass ammount of new players coming in ad teamkilling,raping, etc. The good old destroying of CO assests has gotten people banned on servers and its really not fun, I seem to only get fun when I play with a group of freinds. Other than that, I never play PR. Its bring without my mates.(technoelite, Sheffield, Don, Prince, Yakuz, Noob, Nuke, Just to name a few)

[White Rock]

What do you lads think has taken the fun away between these two versions?

Insuregent spawntimes, bleeding treshold and blidness and slower walking.

I was intgiued first time i tried it, thinking that it would force players to cooperate.

But peapole still dont (there is alot of things that have to go right), which leads to incredibly frustrating and punishing gameplay. You can't force teamwork, you'll just frustrate the players.
Maybe if i was in a clan and played like twice a month i could enjoy it, but im not. Casual gameplay has definetly gotten worse.

I've had my fun moments but they are farther between and i feel so handicapped compared to 0.7 and i dont enjoy it.

[LtSoucy]

Insuregent spawntimes, bleeding treshold and blidness and slower walking.

For me its none of those, I love the mod and all the stuff that they do for it and all the realism in it. makes it fun when playing with mates. But when your in a squad that doesn't follow orders or there's
9 squads all locked and most single people, it gets me mad. And mostly I have found out Punkbuster is causing issues leading to most older players to stop.

[space]

I know what you mean, but its not all bad - the maps are awesome, and some of the gameplay changes are great ( building fb without CO )- its just a few of the gameplay changes that are a problem, and we all know which ones Im talking about.
Im sure 0.85 will be out soon to fix things.

[Danolboy]

I think the problem people are having is that there is less emphasis on individual skill in 0.8 and more emphasis on teamwork. Now for some people that is welcomed but for others it just isn't satisfying, which is completely understandable. I do think that 0.7 was almost there with the balance between the two (slightly too twitch happy) but I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that 0.8 has gone slightly too far the other way now (towards enforced teamwork).

The majority of people playing the game do not get to experience it on uber admin'd servers, in scrims, or with highly organised and tactically astute players. 0.8 is geared heavily towards this and playing with anything less than above can leave you with a sub par experience. There's simply no escaping that fact.

So question is, will the dev's continue to forge ahead in an increasingly 'niche' direction or will they sacrifice certain aspects of their realism-mod vision to make the game more accessible.

I can see it coming down to aspirations of player numbers.

[Alex6714]

Regarding teamwork, many people have yet to realise that teamwork extends beyond just the 5 people in your squad.

[Solid Knight]

You can't force teamwork. Teamwork fails not because code but mostly because of communication problems. Not everyone has a microphone, not everyone wants to cooperate, and not everyone has tactical sense. Squads break down mostly because of poor communication (no mic), a weak squad leader, or general disregard other squad members. For example, your squad might be assaulting an enemy position. One squad member knows how to get into the enemy fortification unnoticed however the remaining squad members continue to run head first into combat and get annihilated and thus the guy who knows where to go gets frustrated and stops working with his squad... starts soloing. If your squad keeps getting beat back teamwork breaks down as people are just trickling in towards the fight which pretty much stops communication. Squad members who get cut off from the rest of their squad due to enemy attack tend to then go solo if the distance between them and the rest of the squad is too great.

On another side of things, the new deviation system has led to a rise in spraying. Given that it is now random I've found--and based on many hours of play so have other people--that's it is far more effective to just spray rounds at your target to score a hit than it is to take your time. This seems to be an unintended side effect. Keep in mind if you make a system that seems random to people then they will treat it as such and the only way to improve your odds is with more tries which means rapid fire. Keep in mind that people will give up on trying to aim if they witness shots not going anywhere near where they shoot at a medium or short range. Sure it makes fire fights last longer but people will work around it rather than with it, that's the nature of the gamer hence all those exploits you see like bunny hopping and the like.

[1337haxSpecopz]

I can only have fun it .8 with friends, it seems that all the people in my squad that I don't know are ****** bags.

My main gripe about .8 is insurgency, which was my favorite mode in .7. With 2-3 main spawn points usually camped for intel points it gets hard to move to a place. All the random spawn points gave the feeling of insurgents being everywhere. Now you got hideouts which generally are placed across the street from the mosque by said ****** bags. And when you scrape your knee you die because no one wants to get punished for helping the team.

[Rudd]

Never Judge PR on a harsh scale until 0.85, I remember after 0.7 I was quite livid (mostly about suppression) But I got used to it, and when various fixes and balances came in 0.75, I settled in to a great mod. I'm loving 0.8 tbh, but there are aspects I dislike, but 0.85 will be good imo.

[Deadfast]

I just can't stand playing on public anymore.


I always seem to be unlucky enough to run into a mob of 'tards.



Thank god the tournament is going to start soon

[MadTommy]

Sounds like all you boys need to play on a T&T server!!!

We still have lots of teamwork and good players. I haven't had to kick a player out of my squad for not following orders for donkey's years!

We do admin a lot, it can annoy some but seems to please a lot more. (pretty annoying for us admins.. we dont do it for fun!)
We have and will "Resign" tardish squad leaders & commanders. A lot of our members will lead squads.. and they are always teamwork orientated. We don't allow locked squads, (except at round start, for squad organisation), we kick asset wasters and smacktards regularly. We effectively try and run a zero muppet tolerance server and at the same time welcome new players. Can be a hard balance, but it works.

Teamwork still exists.. you just need to use a strongly admined server. And i suggest T&T

[Preston]

Wow, I didn't figure my thread would get one reply.

To the PR developers. Sorry if the thread took a negative direction. That was not my intention. You guys put in a lot of man hours and hard work so that we all my have fun. I was just trying to express my personal feelings about what i perceive to be a change in atmosphere around here.

I can remember in VS. 3 before the limited kits were used how everyone was a Sniper with the 249 and the fav map was Oasis. The bottom line is for me I believe it boils down to the fun of playing with the same guys. There was probably a handful of about 50 guys, out of which some would be online and any given time. It was fun playing with some of the same people. It enhanced teamwork and you could trust they would pick you up if you were at the base camp with no Trans. so you didnt have to walk for 100k.

Like i said i've been gone for the better part of a year, and completely missed out on the VS 7 so alot has changed, including the players.

Ill get over it

[Tartantyco]

You can't force teamwork.

-Yes you do. If it wasn't so there'd be little need for this mod as teamwork would be rife in the vbf2 servers.... But they aren't. Because you have to force them into a position where they have to rely on other people, perform tasks that to them are boring but they do them because the next time someone else will do those tasks, because if you give them the option 80% of the players would be running around with sniper rifles. Enforce teamwork? Hell yes!

[Deadfast]

He meant that "You are not able to force teamwork" which I agree with to some extend.

You can make it pain in the *** to go solo, but you can't change people...

[Solid Knight]

No. It is impossible to make people work together all the time every time. You can encourage it all you want but that won't change the mentality of all the players.

[Preston]

LOL, especially in a game. Those who are Vets of any service/country who have been in any type of leadership role know its hard enough to get your fellow soldiers to work together all the time in reality, much less a game.

P

[Solid Knight]

You should also see if your teamwork incentives don't have other negative side effects. It is important to keep in mind that the more frustrated a player becomes the more likely he is to lone wolf. I notice that when people get frustrated in games they just start doing stupid things or just run off and do their own thing. So, on a certain level, you don't want to penalize too much.

[Deer]

Now that many ppls are talking about this, maybe i should say this again.

Source of worsening and worsening teamwork in public players is that every since SquadLeader-spawnpoint was removed, it has been too difficult for public-level players to stay together. And if its too difficult for them to stay together, it is too difficult for them to even have a chance to do teamwork. Because before you can do teamwork, you need to be close to squadmates. And this issue happens regardless of does the squad use voip or not.

For players who plays with friends or clanmates this is not a problem. For public players it is the source of all teamwork-problems.



PR used to make completely random ppls go together, form squad, and do very nice teamwork. Some ppls did less teamwork and some did more, but point is that when it was possible for ppls to stay together so easily, everyone did _automaticly_ somekind of teamwork with other squad members.


If you try to deny that teamwork in public players isnt worsening and worsening nowadays, read what ppls are talking in this thread and also look at your map while playing on regular servers, see how 95% of public-squads are spread out around map most of the time, squad mates are far from eachothers most of the time.


We have 2 kinds of players now. Players who looks for bit more dedicated teamwork, and players that are less hardcore(most of the players). Now the less hardcore players are being kicked from specific servers and therefore those servers only has dedicated teamworkers playing on the server. And then players that are kicked out of those servers which supports only dedicated teamworking, goes on servers where they are allowed to play the game.
This leads to situation where standard ppl are playing in normal servers, and dedicated teamwork players are playing on those specific teamwork-servers.

So solution to all this would be making an option that server admins can choose if there is a squadleader-spawnpoint, or not. That way public players and players who likes it, get squadleader-spawns and gameplay is once again much better for everyone. While dedicated teamwork servers where is "hardcore teamwork-fans", doesnt need the squadleader-spawnpoints

[Tartantyco]

Now that many ppls are talking about this, maybe i should say this again.

Source of worsening and worsening teamwork in public players is that every since SquadLeader-spawnpoint was removed, it has been too difficult for public-level players to stay together. And if its too difficult for them to stay together, it is too difficult for them to even have a chance to do teamwork. Because before you can do teamwork, you need to be close to squadmates. And this issue happens regardless of does the squad use voip or not.

For players who plays with friends or clanmates this is not a problem. For public players it is the source of all teamwork-problems.



PR used to make completely random ppls go together, form squad, and do very nice teamwork. Some ppls did less teamwork and some did more, but point is that when it was possible for ppls to stay together so easily, everyone did _automaticly_ somekind of teamwork with other squad members.


If you try to deny that teamwork in public players isnt worsening and worsening nowadays, read what ppls are talking in this thread and also look at your map while playing on regular servers, see how 95% of public-squads are spread out around map most of the time, squad mates are far from eachothers most of the time.

-What servers are you people playing on? I usually see nothing but squads working in cohesive groups on the map, and SL to SL teamwork without a CO. I have no problems keeping my squad together and no problems keeping them alive even when the odds are stacked heavily against us. When people get killed you should never just brush that off within 30 seconds as the player respawns on you and everything is super again, if your squad loses it's cohesion it's because the SL is doing a poor job or the enemy is doing a great job.