Revamping of the Kit Limiting

[panther501]

I recently read a couple posts saying how kits are far to limited in .8 and any avalible kits are usually hogged by squads who end up never even using them correctly. Heres my idea about how to fix it.

We should make rifleman at, support, and spec ops (or demo man as some people call it now) standard kits with a twist, only 1 per squad. This will make each squad much more well-rounded and suited for carrying out a wider range of tasks. The kits could be limited like the officer's is to 1 special kit per squad. So a standard infantry squad could look like this:

Officer
Rifleman Optics
Support (limited 1 per squad)
Medic
Engineer
Rifleman AT (limited 1 per squad)

As you can see, this squad is much better than this one which i find often while playing PR:

Officer
Medic
Medic
Special Kit
Rifleman Optics
Engineer

With recent improvements to the PR formula, the standard infantry squad usually doesn't have enough skills to carry out all the nessesary tasks like AT work, Building, Assulting, Scouting, Etc.

Each squad could have a fire team and an assault team set up like this:

Fire team:
Officer
Rifleman AT
Support

Assault Team:
Medic
Engineer
Rifleman Optics

This is just an idea so don't bash me for it.

[hx.bjoffe]

No bash, but i don't see why you're so keen on having a engy in a basic inf squad..

Heres my idea about how to fix it.

We should make rifleman at, support, and spec ops (or demo man as some people call it now) standard kits with a twist, only 1 per squad.

That 'twist' is how it was pre-0.8. Except the specops. And why would you have one of those in each inf-squad?

Having 3 LATs, 3 grenadiers and 3 SAWs for a 32-man unit is appearantly the realistic option.

[panther501]

I find it often that my squad is in situations where we needed certain kits (AT) but none were avalible so in effect my squad was forced away from the objective or wiped out. I do believe it is standard in the US military for squads to at least have a support guy (not sure about AT or demo).
Engy's are good for repairs and can come in handy sometimes

[crazy11]

You do realize that there are only 3 LAT for each team with a 5 min respawn.

[tehb2]

I'd like to see at the least the light AT kit being more available than it is now. I understand limiting the full AT kit, but far too often a squad can't handle any kind of vehicle, let alone an armored one (APC, tank) because the AT kits are always gone. Or, make it so light AT's can reload (using ammo bags) on their AT weapons. One shot from one of those is not going to kill an APC. It may leave, but I'd rather be able to kill it if it doesn't high tail it back to base entirely.

I'm not an expert on the standard equipment carried by troops, but I see a lot of light AT weapons running around on TV and in news photos. I have a huge book of Iraq invasion photos, and in that kind of situation, plenty of guys have an AT4, and someone generally carries a Javelin or other reusable system.

[Solid Knight]

I hate being perfectly positioned to engage a vehicle but not having access to any kit to attack with. LAT, Automatic Riflemen, and Marksmen kits can easily be controlled with per squad limitations.

[LithiumFox]

... the reason they did that was cause people were going crazy with them.

[panther501]

yah so my idea would be to still limit the amount of at kits but allow each squad at least 1 instead of like 10 guys running around with bazookas blowing the **** out of stuff.

[LithiumFox]

... so then it would be 9 guys running around with bazookas blowing the **** out of stuff...?

edit: actually you have to account for 9 squads on each team

18 guys running around with bazookas blowing the **** out of stuff.... except on insurgency or militia i think...

[panther501]

Well the kits could be limited to an extent that squads would have to be certain sizes. This would also encourage people to get into bigger 6 man squads instead of the annoying 2 manners.

[LithiumFox]

... it still would lead... to 18 people... in a 64 person server... with hats and lats...

only in 6 man squad form...

[panther501]

Would you prefer to have 9 people in a 64 man server being the only ones able to kill vehicles, tanks, emplacements, enemy postions, etc?

[LithiumFox]

... there are many other ways to do this...

1. Hat/Lat (the 9 people you refer to)
2. Your own vehicles, tanks, AIRCRAFTS on large maps
3. enemy positions: infantry? You have weapons, and grenades. or better yet, if you see a bunker, wait till they all leave and stab the radio, then when they all run back, grenade them

You might not realize it, but you don't ALWAYS have to kill. I actually prefer not to. I sneak. Especially when i'm squad leader. We heard a tank coming up behind us, i told everyone to get into a ditch and go prone, and told them to lay parallel to the street because the incline makes your legs appear and stick out and visible. Everyone stayed perfectly still, and the tank drove by, and we crossed the street. Another squad took care of the tank as we were taking care of the infantry that were attacking them.

Not everyone needs a lat and a hat, some squads just need to know when they need to attack and when they don't. It's called common sense =D.

(LithiumFox does not promote that he always has common sense. Just that he does in small 4 hour bursts)

[panther501]

Yes but there are certain situations where an at would come in handy. Lets say you are storming the fortress at 7 gates. There are many bunkers that troops take cover in and there is a lack explosive firepower to take them out. Or when there is a enemy supply truck sitting around that could potentialy be used by the locals and no one around on your team has firepower to destroy it (unless you want to resort to chucking many nades). And how about the new MG and AA emplacements at bunkers and firebases. If the enemy is defending a bunker, you can't just go in and stab the radio to get rid of the defensive equipment. But anyway, if another patch comes and includes this idea, then AT4's could take longer to deploy which would limit people who try and run around with them. Plus i never recall and instance where people did run around with at4's, even in .75 when they were more widespread.


Lets not hog this post with debate. Lets here other opinions

[LithiumFox]

i do... many times i recall those instances...

i do think that hats/lats/ and spec ops should be seperate.

If you have a hat and lat, no spec ops, and vise versa

then you could get a spec ops and blow up trucks... though i can't say much for bunkers if it's being defended

[GR34]

yes it is always a apin in the *** when some n00b takes the Lat kit then stays on the carrier while my squad is being engaged by an APC and not being able to do a dam thing about it

[Solid Knight]

Sure, you could have 9 people on each side with LATs if nobody was driving in APCs, if nobody was manning AAV, if nobody was manning tanks, if nobody was manning helicopters, if nobody was flying jets, on a full server with everyone alive. You also have to consider that not everyone gets the chance to even use LAT.

People are being dismissive about this without ever factoring in the changes in gameplay in .8 and a multitude of ways to prevent "spamming" of LAT rockets that could easily be incorporated into the kit system.

The aim is to make LAT, SAW, and Marksmen kits more available. You can achieve this with per squad limitations. You could require squads to be at least four members in size before even getting one of these kits.

You could expand on the above idea as well by only allowing one special kit per four man squad and for additional kits you must have another member. So a four man squad gets one special. A five man gets two specials. A six man gets three specials. This system would give players better access to kits whilst still limiting their quantity.

You could expand on the above system even more, you could limit kit availablity based on other kit types. For example, if you are an APC squad then you do not have access to SAW, Marksmen, Grenadier, Sniper, and Special Ops kits as you can limit the kits based on people having the crewman kit in your squad. I'm not fond of this idea but I'm saying that it is in the realm of possibility.

In closing, it'd be greatly appreciated if people actually explored alternative options or actually gave some thought to the idea being proposed (even if they have to modify it) before just out-right dismissing it.

[LithiumFox]

actually i did give thought into it, thank you very much.

The point in being is that not every squad needs an AT kit, and honestly people need to realize that they don't always need to engage an enemy, especially when it's a tank. Limiting AT's limits the "i'm invincible" mentality that SOME, and i say some, people get when using an anti-tank kit.

[Gaven]

Here's what I think:

5xLAT
3xSpec op-Remove C4
2xHAT
Engineer gets C4

[panther501]

lets not bring up the c4 issue i'd prefer we focus on the idea at hand please