Ammo bags/dumps need serious tweaking

[Scot]

Why? I mean I don't know about Real life, but I'm assuming here that if you are a soldier, you only carry extra specialist supplies such as LAT for the LAT man(for eg) I mean surely you are given your mags and that's it? You aren't given extra for your mates?

What's ridiculous to me is the fact that you are actually running low on magazines for your rifle.

Why? Cos I stay alive long enough to run low?

[random pants]

Wow, you've totally whiffed on this. The rifleman carries ammo for EVERYONE, that's why, before in .75, you could reload any rocket off of an ammo bag. The problem now is, that they've reduced the amount of "ammo pull" so much that high value items (rockets, dressings, smoke) cause the bag to disappear very quick, often disappearing even before they resupply.

I stay alive long too, and I never run low, but that's because I waste very few bullets. 270 rounds of single shot and small bursts will last me forever, plus I usually throw out the ammo bags of my fallen enemies/comrades. If you have high accuracy, you can easily get 30 kills with mags to spare.

[Rudd]

I run low all the time, I use suppression fire more than effect fire

Its not always about direct kills ya know...

imo 100% increase in ammo bag size would not benefit gameplay, especially given that you probably have more than one rifleman in the squad and that ammo will probably be spawning in soon enough

the problem really is that BF2 can't give ammo to weapon X and not Y, so I prefer the 0.8 ammo system over previous incarnations

[bad_nade]

The problem behind all this is the fact that there is no way (AFAIK) to specify what types of supplies are available from ammo bag, small crate, supply crate etc, etc. They all share the same supply points value and when it gets drained out, box disappears. In .756 ammo bag had much more supplies and this lead to situation where people started exploit ammo bag's habit to reload not only players equipent, but the ammo bag itself too. Thus, you could replicate that one ammo bag endlessly and have unlimited reserve of field dressings, magazines, grenades etc. This 'create material from void' exploit had to go.

[Spec]

A real rifleman doesnt carry ammo for everyone.
A real rifleman doesnt carry any rocket at all.
A real rifleman's job isnt to supply the squad.

Rifleman doesnt mean "ammo carrier". Just... rifleman. Shooter.

At least thats what common sense tells me.

I'd also say the bag rather simulates something such as sharing mags. Ammo boxes and crates are for the bigger things.

I find that quite okay.

Edit: A big + to the two posts above.

[Scot]

I think that the rocket thing was actually on purpose. As IIRC it was something to do with you can't resupply the rocket without resupplying the Ammo bag. About smoke grenades, field dressings, it's unrealistic to get more smoke grenades or field dressings, or any grenades for that matter. As I have said beforehand, you would share ammo(grenades etc) and this is simulated by the bag.

[Robbi]

IRL you do share ammo, and im not completely sure as I wasnt ever in contact with LAT IRL but arenbt they mostly disposable anyway... I know this is a realisim mod, and .8 has nailed the ammo sit perfectly [as annoying as it is]... anymore and I think it would be overkill

[Tirak]

A real rifleman doesnt carry ammo for everyone.
A real rifleman doesnt carry any rocket at all.
A real rifleman's job isnt to supply the squad.

Rifleman doesnt mean "ammo carrier". Just... rifleman. Shooter.

At least thats what common sense tells me.

I'd also say the bag rather simulates something such as sharing mags. Ammo boxes and crates are for the bigger things.

I find that quite okay.

Edit: A big + to the two posts above.

Rifleman's Ammo bag also represents a loader for AT rockets and MGs,

[Scot]

But as said before, as BF2 can't distinguish between different ammo types (EG Rocket or bullet(i know it can do vehicle and person)) then the situation as it is now is fine.

[Spec]

Rifleman's Ammo bag also represents a loader for AT rockets and MGs,

As said, if we had different ammo types, i could live with that.

Maybe I could live with a class limited to ammo supply for "heavy" stuff with an ammo bag (even ammo box model?) that has more ammo, but other than that just an ironsighted rifle and the usual stuff (dressing, binocs, knife... maybe shovel).

Though IF it's possible to increase tha bag's "reload time" so its not possible to reload a bag from a bag... that'd be cool.

Edit: My first post was too aggressive. Sorry. Shouldnt sound that ... uhm... mad.

[Caboosehatesbabies]

If it's not possible to distinguish what gets ammo first, then leave it like it is.

From friendly soldiers to humvees to trucks to commandposts there is plenty of ammo around if you are willing to take the time to get it.

[vishuddaxxx]

I got to agree with the op to some degree, in that many times i have bleeded and tried to get a bandage from my ammo bag, but teh bag disappears very quickly and no bandage..

i understand that there is also a hradcoded problem with having more than 1 ammo bag , and that is that, a rifleman can magically produce more ammo bags , by re supplying his ammo bags!!!

one way round the problem of not having bandages in the ammo bags could be to simply give the soldiers two bandages instaed of one?

especially with the new bleed tolernace, it can be really annoying to be unable to stop the bleed..

if im flying a transport chopper, what i tend to do is keep dropping supplies boxes around freidnlie areas, that way there is plenty of ammo for all.. . and i sugget that all pilots do this as well.. drop crates often round friendlies..

[Rudd]

i understand that there is also a hradcoded problem with having more than 1 ammo bag , and that is that, a rifleman can magically produce more ammo bags , by re supplying his ammo bags!!!

one way round the problem of not having bandages in the ammo bags could be to simply give the soldiers two bandages instead of one?

there are these very special people ingame, they can be recognised by the red capes, solid musculature and huge testicles

these people are called Medics

and regarding ammo bags, I think you can put a max of ONE down atm, even if you resupply it

[hexhunter]

I always thought the point of ammo bags was more about having extra ammo for specific kits like HAT and engineer(mines, though now we have support jeeps, I guess people use those instead), and maybe LAT though it has been pointed out that they are disposable and it's unlikely that there would be 2 per squad.

If ammo bags are just meant to be shared mags then maybe there should be a limited support kit with enough ammo to support a HAT, and rifleman get far less, enough for a couple of mags.

[daranz]

An ammo bag shouldn't be an infinite source of field dressings. That's what medic bags are for. Medics are the ones that carry medical supplies for doing medic things (although those medical supplies aren't really a gameplay element beyond epipens).

I also wouldn't want ammo bags to resupply LAT. If you wanna have another launcher, you bring another launcher, not a magical adaptable ammo bag. Same goes with any sort of heavy munitions that you might want to bring along. The rifleman is not a pack animal carrying loads of AT4s, mines, C4, grenades and ammo belts in his backpack.

I am all for increasing the capacity of boxes and crates, though. Hell, I'd even suggest upping the box capacity to match that of the crate, without adding the FB/Bunker building capacities to it. It'd actually encourage people to use APCs to support infantry, instead of the APCs riding around with the back compartment empty 99% of the time.

[random pants]

[quote=""'[R-COM"]TheScot666;821283']I think that the rocket thing was actually on purpose. As IIRC it was something to do with you can't resupply the rocket without resupplying the Ammo bag. About smoke grenades, field dressings, it's unrealistic to get more smoke grenades or field dressings, or any grenades for that matter. As I have said beforehand, you would share ammo(grenades etc) and this is simulated by the bag.[/quote]



Unrealistic to get extra dressings and grenades? Just stop it....

Please show me some proof that ammo bags are not meant to resupply things like rockets/grenades/dressings. It seems that you're making a big assumption on this. In ANY previous version you could resupply ALL of these items off the ammo bags, but I guess the DEVs really didn't want that to happen, according to what you think.


I can't believe there is actually disagreement as to whether or not rifleman's ammo bag should resupply things like LAT rockets and dressings/smoke. It's always been able to resupply these things, AND IT STILL CAN.

The problem now, and this is the point of this thread, is that the bags resupply too little, and/or there aren't enough bags (if you think we should have more)

You can still get a LAT rocket off a bag if you havn't used anything else in your kit. The fact that you say this isn't possible shows you don't know what you're talking about, and you're looking for ways to justify your baseless theory that ammo bags aren't really for resupplying.

[quote="daranz""]An ammo bag shouldn't be an infinite source of field dressings. That's what medic bags are for. Medics are the ones that carry medical supplies for doing medic things (although those medical supplies aren't really a gameplay element beyond epipens).

I also wouldn't want ammo bags to resupply LAT. If you wanna have another launcher, you bring another launcher, not a magical adaptable ammo bag. Same goes with any sort of heavy munitions that you might want to bring along. The rifleman is not a pack animal carrying loads of AT4s, mines, C4, grenades and ammo belts in his backpack.
[/quote]

Who said it was an infinite source? Don't put words in my mouth.

It'd be nice to have someone in your squad to resupply that medic, wouldn't it?

Bring another LAT launcher, as opposed to having extra ammo for your LAT? Not only is that not possible due to squad limitations, there are only 3 LATs available at a time.

Stop exaggerating what I've been saying, it's annoying, and a poor way to of trying to get your point across. If you read this thread without your bias you'd see that I'm only asking for a modest increase in ammo bag capacity, not bringing a portable supply crate in every ammo bag, which you imply that I'm suggesting.

[Scot]

You can still get a LAT rocket off a bag if you havn't used anything else in your kit. Stop trying to justify this with your BS theories which have no basis whatsoever.

Except a ex-soldier saying that you don't magically have field dressings or smoke grenades carried for you.


In real life.
You carry your kit.
You MIGHT carry extra ammo for a specialist weapon(EG LAT or SAW)
If you are running low on Mags(for example) then you can share with your buddies.

In PR.
There are 2 types of ammo source. Vehicular and Infantry.
The ammo bags are infantry, as are Humvee boxes and supply crates.
In PR there is no accurate way to simulate someone carrying extra specialist ammo, without making it so you get a new ammo bag everytime you get a new rocket.
You can get extra mags which simulates sharing via the ammo bag.
You may get a smoke grenade or dressing, again via the ammo bag.

I really hope that is simple enough for you, as I'm now repeating myself.

[random pants]

Yea, we all understand that Mr. ex soldier.......

Ammo bags were designed to resupply specialist ammo. Kits like the LAT are worthless without the ability to be resupplied at least once on the battlefield. Tell me why we have a kit who's only perk is carrying ammo, but that ammo bag doesn't do its job? This whole "its about sharing mags, man" idea is a joke. Ammo for your primary has never been an issue.

There are compromises for this problem with specialist ammo resupplies like keeping the same amount of ammo points per bag, but increasing the number of bags.

But I'm going to stop arguing about this with you, because you never disagree with anything about this game anyways. It's all perfect, right?

Edit: User was warned for being a twit ... as well he's behaving like one. Please be a bit less destructive.

[Spec]

Please, can we keep this a bit less personal?
Perhaps a Dev can clear this up, until then, we can only guess what exactly the bag is meant to represent.

[Scot]

Random pants.

First off, I'm not an ex soldier. However an ex soldier explained it to me.

Secondly, the reason you can't resupply your LAT is because if you give you 3, then you can put them down and slowly re supply your ammo bags = Constant ammo.

Thirdly, I do not think this mod is perfect. But I do not agree that this needs looking at.