Desire for realism, or difficulty?

[cyberzomby]

Avalon.ca;821002']i think altering reality to make reality is counter productive. you want too make people vaule thier lives in the game. make the spwan times longer. if you had to wait 2- 3 mins every time you died, folks would thing twice before running like a crack head into battle. couple that with knowing that your enemy has a better than average chance ( "A Trained Soldier" ) who is capable of hitting a target more often that not might be a good incentive to keep your head down or flank.

False! Just play Counter-Strike, a game of search and destroy in COD or any other game with long spawn times. You will still get half the team who acts like its TDM to surprise those who take it slow. Usually works pretty good as well.

[[DVB] Avalon.ca]

False! Just play Counter-Strike, a game of search and destroy in COD or any other game with long spawn times. You will still get half the team who acts like its TDM to surprise those who take it slow. Usually works pretty good as well.

not quite sure which part of my opinion is False? as far as counter strike goes i will have to take your word on it. i have never played it. i play PR.

[Solid Knight]

Reset points back to 0 if you get killed.

[[DVB] Avalon.ca]

thats a good idea if you care more about points then winning. i rather win the map.

[Solid Knight]

Actually reset kills back to zero. You're supposedly a different guy anyway. The people who are the "problem" tend to care about these trivial matters to a great extent.

[Fenrir07]

There seems to be a notable subculture of users who want difficulty because they associate it with realism.

"In war everything is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult."
- von Clausewitz

[Truism]

False! Just play Counter-Strike, a game of search and destroy in COD or any other game with long spawn times. You will still get half the team who acts like its TDM to surprise those who take it slow. Usually works pretty good as well.

I am a very, very good TDM player in COD4 (less good at S&D) and at one point was a high level CS player. My strength has always been rush tactics. Rush tactics work well in these games for two reasons.

The first is that most people are actually worse at aiming close up than far away. Because most firefights happen at range and most players expressly try to ensure they happen at "comfort" ranges (that vary from player to play and gun to gun), they are really bad at dealing with someone who literally wants to go toe to toe and jigglestrafe. In COD, the problem is accentuated by people who don't know when and how to use their sights in HC mode. Typically they sight in too close, and no one makes enough use of the Steady Aim perk which makes CQB like killing mewling kittens.

The second reason, which applies more to COD Search and Destroy and CS is because people form expectations about where people can and will be by a certain time in the round, and are not prepared to fight as early as a good rusher will force them to. In TDM, the equivalent is opening a flank on an enemy by bum rushing through a less used part of the map. As above, people in these games are fairly reliant on set patterns and expectations for "how things should be" and when you can create situations outside these expectations, their play is a lot weaker than your's.

I'm not saying people wouldn't do these things in PR if we had longer respawn times, but they wouldn't be as prevalent or successful as they are in COD S&D and CS because the profit motive is stronger there. In both of those games, a local and very definate objective must be achieved and both sides' soldiers are a finite resource. Most rounds won't be won by the objective being secured, but by the resource being depleted. Therefore, an early death where you kill more enemies is a very good death because it greatly increases the chances of your team winning, because statistically most of the firefights in the game after that point should be at a numerical advantage, as well as having more of the resource to spend killing them. This motive should be weaker in a BF2 engine game where capturing objectives to cause ticket bleed should be the biggest factor in winning a round and not fninite numbers of men. Should.

[cyberzomby]

Avalon.ca;821179']not quite sure which part of my opinion is False? as far as counter strike goes i will have to take your word on it. i have never played it. i play PR.

Sorry! The part about longer spawn times. Longer spawn times wont make people value there ingame the way we would like them to value them.

@Truism: I used the same tactics as you for the reasons you stated. Rushing people is usually the better option instead of falling back and waiting for them. I didnt mean those tactics would be found in PR though. What I meant was ( in relation to Avalon's post ) that if people had longer spawn times they wouldnt play more carefull. Like in Search and destroy and CS people still rush and play arcadey while they still have long respawn times ( your out of the round if you die ) I was not trying to say people would do the same rush tactics in PR.

[Truism]

@cyberzomby

And my point was that a longer spawn time would have a very different impact on PR than a CS/COD styled game. I take what you mean though.

[cyberzomby]

ah! Excuse me for not getting yours lol Hmmm Let me think about it. You could be on to something altough Im not sure I would like it if that was the direction PR would head in.

[Solid Knight]

People rush in SOCOM and there is no respawn. People rush because they can catch people with their pants down. It works and it works well. Hell, it works in real life too.

[HughJass]

during my time in afghanistan with the polish forces, I got in to 2 major firefights. Both times we were just laying down fire on a buildings mostly. And boy, I could not even see straight, let alone hold my beryl.

I think the game is very generous when it comes firing in actual combat.

[cyberzomby]

Now that I thought about what you said I think I cant agree with you on the no rushing in PR with longer spawn timers.

Yes you are correct that the scale of PR is a lot bigger. But the confrontations are on a small scale like COD and Counter Strike. So I think that I would try and rush the enemy as well here. It would work 2 because its a small scale. 250m max with most assault rifles.