Ballistics or Tracers?

[Spec]

One could counter that with simulated weapon sway. The bullet would still come out of the middle of the screen, but it should be possible to make the weapon sway anyway to confuse the player a bit. And its better than deviation because every second or so the aim rests in the middle of the screen for half a second, and shooting at this moment would make a good hit, but only if the target isnt expecting it.

Or at least thats what I'd imagine.

Otherwise, maybe the lethality combined with suppression effect actually scares people and forces them to take cover.

Maybe it is even possible to find a balanced way that combines deviation and ballistics.

But before judging, it should simply be tested. I would imagine it could actually scare people.

[CAS_117]

Officer, LMG, HMG, GPMG = every round smaller tracer

No tracers for standard rifles. yay

[Waaah_Wah]

^^No no no!


Its gonna suck if you cant see the enemy or friendly tracers for regular assault rifles. And insurgents will loose another advantage...

[Rico11b]

All "Standard" assault rifles have to have tracers. Simple as that!

AND just because they may include "REALISTIC BALLISTICS" does not mean there is no more deviation. ALL, repeat ALL rifles in real life have "DEVIATION". They just don't call it that "DEVIATION". It's called MOA (Minute Of Angle). So forget about getting uber plazma rifles cause that's not even close to being realistic.

Even if the DEVs add this realistic ballistics, the weapons in game will still have some sort of built in deviation. As they should cause there is no such thing as a point and click rifle in the real world. The shooter still has to do his part no matter what rifle he is shouldering.

Point and click head shotting is NOT realistic with assault rifles, so forget about it.


R

[zangoo]

well the deviation of most rifles is rather small iirc is was around 5 moa or something like that. but like stated before, there will still be deviation but just less.

[Psyko]

yea im bored crapless...You should give us somthing before the major stuff comes. One of the first things you could do is show off the senarios that you chose as poll options so we can see what the crack is.

[CAS_117]

Its gonna suck if you cant see the enemy or friendly tracers for regular assault rifles. And insurgents will loose another advantage...

I'm saying ballistics is more important than tracers. I honestly couldn't care less about the status of tracers as long as ballistics are put in. And how did insurgents get into this?

Point and click head shotting is NOT realistic with assault rifles, so forget about it.

Agreed. But I think that if ballistics are put in the deviation can be toned down a bit. Currently the deviation is several times the MOA for most rifles, not all. And tbh the ballistics will have an element of skill to be used for shooting as well.

[Rico11b]

Agreed right back at ya Yes once we have "realistic ballistics" deviation can be toned down to about 5 MOA as stated. Just because that's fairly close to real world figures.

But not while the shooter is moving or turning about. Deviation while moving and turning will need to be a bit higher than that to simulate the unsteadiness of moving while firing. Good marksmanship BEGINS with a steady and stable body position, NOT one that is in motion!

Moving while firing should SUCK for medium and especially long range engagements. Very close ranges like CQB, not so much. And it SHOULD take 2 or 3 seconds for the shooter to re-acquire another steady and stable body position before "best" accuracy returns after he has moved his body. No real life person can hit the dirt and have super human UBER accuracy within 3 milliseconds. Hell takes longer than that just for your body to come to rest after slamming into the ground.

Also true that once realistic ballistics are added, there will be an increase in the "sense" of skill to effectively use the rifles. Not so much about "skill" itself as it is about memorizing. Mostly thought it will just be memorizing the bullet drop for all the various distances, and knowing how much to hold over or under. Kinda like in real life.

Holdover won't apply much if any to Designated Marksman/ Sniper rifles because those are usually "doped" for range and windage before the shot takes places. If time permitting of course And yes, I know that you can't make elevation and windage changes to optics in game. I was referring to RL

[DeltaFart]

Agreed right back at ya Yes once we have "realistic ballistics" deviation can be toned down to about 5 MOA as stated. Just because that's fairly close to real world figures.

But not while someone is moving or turning about. Deviation while moving and turning will need to be a bit higher than that to simulate the unsteadiness of moving while firing. Good marksmanship BEGINS with a steady and stable body position, NOT one that is in motion!

Moving while firing should SUCK for medium and long range engagements. Very close ranges like CQB, not so much. And it SHOULD take 2 or 3 seconds for the shooter to re-acquire another steady and stable body position before "best" accuracy returns after he has moved his body. No real life person can hit the dirt and have super human UBER accuracy within 3 milliseconds. Hell takes longer than that just for your body to come to rest after slamming into the ground.

Also true that once realistic ballistics are added, there will be an increase in the "sense" of skill to effectively use the rifles. Not so much about "skill" itself as it is about memorizing. Mostly thought it will just be memorizing the bullet drop for all the various distances, and knowing how much to hold over. Kinda like in real life.

Holdover won't apply much if any to Designated Marksman/ Sniper rifles because those are usually "doped" for range and windage before the shot takes places. If time permitting of course

just when you guys are playing with this make sure if you go into a room after shocking **** otu of enemy inside with frag, that when your moving through the room I can take the ******** down

[Waaah_Wah]

I'm saying ballistics is more important than tracers. I honestly couldn't care less about the status of tracers as long as ballistics are put in. And how did insurgents get into this?

They have no tracers, so you can be shot at with a PKM and you will have no idea where its coming from.

[Rico11b]

They have no tracers, so you can be shot at with a PKM and you will have no idea where its coming from.

Whoever said "insurgents" DON'T use tracer ammo?
They use what they have on hand at the time. Most medium and heavy machine gun ammo cases come already linked, so if they acquire a case of ammo they are not going to take all those links apart and remove the tracers. They need every bullet they can get their hands on. Tracers kill just as well as ball ammo.

There is no "insurgent manual" that states they are NOT supposed to use tracer bullets. They use what they have. Mostly they purchase it from illegal arms dealers from around the world. In large quantities at a time. Most all of the ammo comes already pre-linked and prepackaged with tracers in the lot. Hell, they like the watch the fireworks show from tracer ammo just as much as the anyone

[Spec]

He was talking about the current in-game insurgents. And I'd also prefer no tracers for insurgents.

[Scot]

They have no tracers, so you can be shot at with a PKM and you will have no idea where its coming from.

Kinda real... almost like Reality.

Whoever said "insurgents" DON'T use tracer ammo?
They use what they have on hand at the time. Most medium and heavy machine gun ammo cases come already linked, so if they acquire a case of ammo they are not going to take all those links apart and remove the tracers. They need every bullet they can get their hands on. Tracers kill just as well as ball ammo.

There is no "insurgent manual" that states they are NOT supposed to use tracer bullets. They use what they have. Mostly they purchase it from illegal arms dealers from around the world. In large quantities at a time. Most all of the ammo comes already pre-linked and prepackaged with tracers in the lot. Hell, they like the watch the fireworks show from tracer ammo just as much as the anyone

This is also true, but for in game as they are without Tracers.

[CAS_117]

They have no tracers, so you can be shot at with a PKM and you will have no idea where its coming from.

Um. PKMs don't use tracers...? Honestly, tracers work both ways so you can't call that an advantage.

[Waaah_Wah]

Not when you try to ambush

[CAS_117]

And all the other times?

[Waaah_Wah]

Good, because they cant see where the bullets are coming from that easily.

[zangoo]

you guys are missing half of the story, sure the people getting shot at wont be able to pin point where the fire is coming from, but they still have the sound so they will no what direction. Plus tracers are going to help the guy shooting wayyy more then the guy getting shot at, so insurgents will be at a disadvantage for anything longer then the zero range of the weapon.

[Waaah_Wah]

Hm.. I never actually use the tracers that much, i just see where my bullets are hitting.

[Psyko]

this point is mute imo. You cant see the bloody tracers because of the suppression layover. "Snap...oh shizznit i bein shot at!" Thats all anyone needs to know. Then when you prone yourself to cover you can turn the direction of the shot using your ears, unless you have only one speaker, in which case your phux0red. You dont NEED tracers in PR except in the times when your being a cowardly camper sniper and seeing what squads are firing where...

I rarely see tracers. And it would be a big benifit for everyone to see where All rounds are coming from. And the other side of the coin is, if you couldnt see ANY tracers, then the people who do in fact rely on them would be on edge making 100% use of the cover next to them. which they should be doing anyway.

If i knew that at any moment there would be an undetectable round whizzing into my cranium, i would be behind the biggest sturdiest piece of cover i could get my hands on.

Hm.. I never actually use the tracers that much, i just see where my bullets are hitting.

Thats what i am saying. You cant see them being fired because your gun blocks the view. And you cant see where they are coming from at the moment of truth because most likely your dead. So the only effective tracers would be the APC, tank and MG leadrain.