squad leader request kits for squad.

[Psyko]

Alright. Important question regarding this.

I'd like you to elaborate on what your suggesting a bit. Its not as easy as saying "heres my suggestion, there ya go."

Your suggesting that Squad Leaders have direct control over the squads kits. Do you mean... *The squad leader has the ability to request these kits at the rally.
*The Squad leader has the ability to request these kits at his feet anywhere.
*The Squad leader has the ability to request these kits Anywhere within friendly flag radius.
*Members request kits off the squad leader's location.

Heres the thing. In a way the rally bag is allready, the squad leader allowing a person to select a specific kit, for the majority of the round. So lets look at it for a second. If a squad leader for some reason didnt want people to take kits without consent, its up to him to produce a rally or not, he has the choice. If he decides to set one, then fair dues...everyones a winner. but if he doesnt, the members can either get narky, go back to base, and get one there, or they can leave the squad, or they can accept it.

With this system, if the squad leader refuses a kit, what are the reprecussions for the SL? The member spamming until the squad leader kicks him from squad. Of the member hopping from squad to squad until he gets what he wants. because in my PR experiance, most members behave like little kids when they dont their own way. and the squad leader needs to be a motivational speaker for people to effectivly follo his orders...and ill tell ye, we are in short bloody supply of motivational speakers

The current system works because no matter how many times a person gets killed in a round and thus pissed off, they can allways pick up a kit to boost their moral. If they didnt have that, what would happen? Im not saying we shouldnt give this a try, but this is a suggestion thread and the posts within it are ment for counter proposals and feedback to better the suggestion.

Good suggestion

[Cobhris]

Except that in an infantry squad, setting a rally before engaging in combat is obligatory. No one wants to have to run all the way from the base to the battle. So there will always be a rally to suck kits out of. That being said, I wouldn't want to give the SL 100% control over the squad.If someone took a kit that I explicitly said I didn't want them to have, I would kill them to put the kit back in rotation and then kick them from the squad.

[Tte.oteo]

Military chain of command isn't a valid argument. Spec Ops and Sniper are two classes where you have to volunteer to train for. Secondly, you're playing a game, not enlisting in the military. People aren't going to go for it. There is no real chain of command. I can be a squad leader one second and a squad member the next and then the commander. If you want to play this chain of command game then I'd just go commander and order you to give me the HAT. How's that?

????? this post can go ina general discussion section i belive

[Wicca]

I liked psykoguns point with the rally point, he was saying that he as a squadleader, before he sat the rally got everyone togheter, and said, before he placed it, this is what i want, this is what i want. And this is what i want, if you cant live with it, then beat it.

Now i agree with him, i never thought of that before.

The point ive understood so far is that, SL request kits for other players at rally points. Except, PILOT and CREWMAN.

And you just need to be 2 guys in one squad to request a sniper. (I hope sniper does his job right)

So what you get is people constantly saying i want this kit, i want this kit. Mehmeh this mehmeh that. lol. I dont think thats gonna happen, if i as a Squadleader, could command what the SMs had arms wise, then i could plan alot easier, with this patch its like:

"Ok im gonna attack a tank, and my squad has a sniper kit, grenadier kit and marksman. Great. "

I have had some awesome days in PR, people have been following orders, done what ive said, then there is the shitti parts when noone follows orders, theres always that one guy that takes marksman or sniper. And i want everyday to be happy. (sounded kinda naive )

So if we have this system we are actually a UNIT, not 6 induviduals talking over voip. But we can more effectivly cause harm towards the enemy. The SL is the brain of the squad, the members his limbs, be sure to remember that.

And solid knight its not about chain of command in that aspect, its more of a what part of this big machine am i? And then, how do i act in this machine. If the brain of the body wanted to be the kidney instead, that wouldnt really work would it? Then the body would always go to the bathroom with his head upside down or smt

Now what im saying is not that whoever is the highest rank has the most fun. Its not the kits that make this game so awesome nor the rank, its the reality part, the kameradery, the laughs, and the chatter. Its the delirious feeling of victory, and the humiliating shivers of defeat. I as a person dont give a rats *** about what kit i get in any squad, aslong as the squad is fun, and we kick alot of ***, togheter.

A Commander commands, he is highest in the chain of command, but that doesnt make that position a place you want to be, youll be faced with alot off challenges, and alot of stress. Also if you loose you will be rememberd for it. People might say that the commander is retarded
*Everyone noods*

This system is not to give the grunts a punch in the face, or a slapp on the arse. Its just to give everyone a better playing excperience.

Now imagine we already implemented this system, and someone suggested that everyone should be able to request kits. Then we would all say that ppl would be exploiting etc.

What you should do is to find YOUR place in project reality.

[Gaven]

I'm still going to argue status quo on this.

As a squad leader, I only see this being a much bigger pain in the ***, after thinking about it and playing a few rounds as SL.

First off, every time a squad member dies I don't want to have to stop what I'm doing and run over to request a kit for him. Telling people what to do really goes a long way. If you can't get your squad to do what you want, or get the kits that you request them to have, you're an incompetent squad leader, simple as that.

I'm not a micromanager. I hate micromanaging. I feel that it causes more problems than it does good. When I tell people to do something, I don't want them to sit there and ask me how to do EVERYTHING, if I tell them to accomplish a goal, I don't care how they accomplish it, as long as they DO it, and call for help if need be. If I'm in a fire fight, I expect them to take care of their problems on their own, and call help if they feel necessary. Usually I'm handling my own issues and planning.

I don't want to abandon the squad in a firefight if one of my squad members gets killed to go request them a kit that we might need. Nor do I want to put my squad in full retreat for no reason, it's just bad tactics.

I don't think this will improve game-play, it'll just make everything a bigger, unnecessary pain in the ***.

[Wicca]

Lets try it, and see who is right

[Gaven]

Lets try it, and see who is right

I'm already starting to get annoyed with many of the ways the devs are FORCING people to play the game. There are enough restrictions. Let's just leave it the same.

[CodeRedFox]

I agree, It can easily be a major problem see as most players dont play as a team. But would be something I would want...but see the problems. And no we wont just try it and see if it works Wicca

[Wicca]

Allright allright, but im gonna use that idea that Psyko said. About the rally. mohahaha;P

[Bringerof_D]

It would definetly require some tweaking, but the over all idea i like!

there may be some issues with, "its too slow" or "we cant react to a situation fast enough" or "our squadlead is on the other side of the mountain because i just respawned and he needs me to get a specific kit to take care of a hostile______"

anywho these problems can be dealt with so great idea! the only real issue would be the "i just died and SL needs a specific kit"

[Bringerof_D]

You guys are trying to have the players micromanaged like some RTS game. Why even have players?

because RTS is more fun and realistic when your men disagree with you. the only reasons i dont play RTS is because its me doing ALL the thinking, thats not fun at all, i have an EXACT detailed view of ALL my units and the enemy's. the reason i love PR is if i play commander, i feel the distance between me and the fighting men. i make judgment based on information that may or may not be reliable, your men may make suggestions, your men may disagree. strategy and tactics are boring without the "what if" factors the whole reason you see in movies and documentaries of command posts being all intense and nervous, is because the commander only knows approximate intel, and makes a decision based on predictions and human behavior patterns.

the difference between victory and loss, is whether or not your men and their men act the way you predicted, hoped, and prayed they'd do.

[Orthas]

About the suggestion of SL needing to get back to rally, couldn't that be solved by the kit spawning at the rally? So SL requests kit and it spawns at the rally unless he is within, say, 25 meters from firebase or main?

For the debate about pilots and crewmen. You could have the SL select a different SL Crewman or SL Pilot kit and then your squad could pick the proper kits out from a position near the vehicles as is now. So the only difference would be that only those in squads with the right type of squad leader could get the pilot or crewman. And for the CAS whiners, we could use a fourth type of SL kit as I mentioned before, one whose squad could have sniper, specops and pilots (for the CAS) in addition to the very basic kits. Haven't thought out what the effect of combining pilot and special operations squads into one would be. Naturally this'd lead into problems if the SL wants to fly, but will have to think about it a bit more. (Would make a good argument for spec ops getting their 'chutes back )

In my opinion restricting the different squad leader kits wouldn't work in real world as this would lead to the aforementioned "make the only pilot squad and lock it" situation. Also I think that we should reduce the kits available at spawn to only riflemen for normal squads, thus making medic and engineer/mountaineer also requestable. This'd further make the specialized kits feel more valuable. Maybe make it so that SL Crewman's squad can spawn engineers though (or implement a new kit called Mechanic or something like that), for repairing their vehicles.

[victor_phx]

It WON'T work.

Not only it will ruin gameplay by harming some of the basics in infantry combat, but it may bring us the need for a dozen changes in the squad system (and most of them have already been highlighted in this thread).

I mean, let's pick a situation: We have a full squad, 6 people. Squad leader sets a rally point and moves into combat along with squad members. One of which is an Automatic Rifleman, and gives long range support to his squad. But he dies, and respawns at the safe-located rally point, that is set 150m away from the combat area. Former Automatic Rifleman spawns and cannot retrieve his kit, nor pick a new one to give long range support.

The squads tactics have been compromised.

[CodeRedFox]

make it like if he asks player to get kit, the player requests the kit and then the SL gets a little option to approve or deny the request.

Then you can voice your opinion by requesting a MGunner and the SL gets a little msg and says "Why didn't i think of that?"

Well well, some brain storming finally happen

[Psyko]

I liked psykoguns point with the rally point, he was saying that he as a squadleader, before he sat the rally got everyone togheter, and said, before he placed it, this is what i want, this is what i want. And this is what i want, if you cant live with it, then beat it.

Im Good i am

And solid knight its not about chain of command in that aspect, its more of a what part of this big machine am i? And then, how do i act in this machine. If the brain of the body wanted to be the kidney instead, that wouldnt really work would it? Then the body would always go to the bathroom with his head upside down or smt

Genious!


Im still trying to search this idea for problems.
Im focusing on the exploits other than everything else.
One guy having control over a whole squad's tools might sound a little hard to get adjusted by the typical player. But the problem is that, he will give items to people in the squad for the first half of the match, then evey new member to the squad might get ignored. the other thing is, the issues this might have in game as well.
If sls become a new walking kit request location then it could make tracking enemy kits difficult as all the squad has to do is hide and then they have one. which is no different from placing a rally bag. and we dont need to track kits anyway.
If Sls are the only people capable of requesting kits from the rally bag, does that mean that every kit they request the counter goes back to zero so they dont have to wait for the next one. meaning that the squad leader is the only person with the ability to request kits constantly? two problems exist with this idea.

(1) The squad leader could go..."Okay i want you to be marksman", *selects kit* "Oh shiznit i dont want you to be marksman, be autorifle" *selects different kit* and all the while the other squads are losing out because of retarded sls. so once again the fabric of the gameplay has to take a huge leap backwards where the kits time system is given an overhawl.

(2) SLs could make a squad, so that a couple of people join and then pillage whatever kits they want for themselves and they go "Allright quys, away you go gud'luk'n'fuk'ya" leaving the rest of the squad with nothing to do. minus a kit or two, and without a leader. so they leave the server.

(3) The server will end up with maxed out squad numbers with 3 people in each squad because everyone will want to be squad leader and in the economics of the game, to take advantage of that, all the players will adapt to make tiny squads which will be difficult to communicate to.

Still looking for wholes in different vatients of the overall concept, but thems are the main 3, and its all theory.

[arjan]

How about my idea then?

The officer tree?

You can select a whole squad loadout and youre squad can stick to that.

[viper759]

Well well, some brain storming finally happen

wasnt that part of the original idea? it'd be assanine any other way LOL.

anyway you could do it via python fairly easily from the light research i did into it.

[=]H[=TangFiend]

I like the idea of the SL getting a PAGE-UP / PAGE-DOWN prompt to approve kits without the necessity of being near the rally point himself.


Nothing to micromanage just a glance and a button press could cut down on some of the moron-hood you encounter as a squadleader. Would be nice if the PLAYERNAME and the KIT were gold instead of blue for easy reading at a glance.

Certainly would cut down on some of the moronhood. Just this week I can think of two examples where I had to chide a squad member for choosing off the wall kits in the squads I was leading.

real Example 1 Qwai river: Tow humvee squad - we are mopping up moving very fast. Some kid dies and comes back with a marksman kit. I said "Are you kidding, I hope you can run 35 miles per hour"


real Example 2 Muttrah: two nights ago mech infantry squad a guy dies respawns at carrier and flys back to us with a Littlebird.


It would be nice to have some more control to prevent extreme examples like the above.


Posters here seem so worried about bad squad leaders, there is an 84% more chance of getting a bad squad MEMBER since they are the other 5/6 slots in a squad.