Kashan Training... What to do?

[McBumLuv]

We all know our beloved and hated mishmash that we call Kashan Training, where the very essence of the map is to learn how to spawn rape But can we improve it? Well, with the next patch coming along soon, I would like to see something done.

The Kashan training map from v7.5 was better in some regards, as there was an equal opportunity for both sides.

I therefore propose that we change the map so that the MEC have their air support back. This way, planes can train in air superiority, not just CAS. If jets want to train CAS, we could have both team's armour placed here, there, and everywhere over the map.

Choppers can also spawn at the airfields.

All ground vehicles should spawn somewhere else, though, like at the Outposts.

The possible problem of spawn raping should only be an issue at the airfileds, as you have resources to handle any threat by the Outpost (ie, AA for jets/choppers, tanks for everything else). Perhaps a one hundred meter "No-fly" zone should surround the enemies airfield, so that newcomers to the mod can at least try and climb into the air before being labeled as target practice by more experienced players goofing around in jets (I admit I've even done that a few times).

Please discuss.


PS. Has anyone else hoped onto Kashan and found it to have all the destructibles broken? ie: no runway/houses? And all the flags are rearranged, with F-15s and stuff on it? It's confused me, and I'll try and post a pic of it.

[Dude388]

Well there appears only two logical choices:

1. The option you stated, give both sides equal assets (though my issue with this is possible lag or crashing do to too many wrecks)

2. I've found that if each team is even (ie. 32 vs. 32) the game goes smoothly. Once on the MEC, our team held the BOMBING RANGE the entire round only loosing 10 armor because we set up a solid defense and everyone learned how to hold a location for an extend period of time against continuous attack from air and armor.

Raping at the bombing range is fine in my book (After all, the name is BOMBING RANGE). My biggest problem is raping at INFANTRY training. MEC player's spawn at the INF training only to be blown away by a parked armor (or even sitting choppers) or planes or choppers circling the spawn.

One time I got fed up and shot down all the attacking armor and aircraft with an AT kit, and got kicked for attacking armor/heli's at the INFANTRY spawn! I find it ironic that after this happens and we change maps, the same players that raped the spawn come back to say that their team doesn't know how to play INFANTRY right and get killed constantly.

If we can find some way to keep these types of raper's out of infantry spawn, I'll see no reason to change the map.

[McBumLuv]

Well, I understand it's possible to have the MEC survive and do best overall, but I just think the "feel" of the map is that it has no direction, and that unless you have

Maybe we could move the INF training into the bunkers, and do some other crazy stuff, so there is a reason to play MEC, cuz I find it's almost always 40 vs 5, though it is fun to stick it to those pilot smacktards with a few good AA rounds and missles

[Waaah_Wah]

Just give each sides equal amount of vehicles and put spawns for both teams at the bunkers. And maybe some static AAs for both teams

[Cassius]

Kashan is about aviation and practicing lasing targets and it works fairly well for that.

[McBumLuv]

Yes, but it only helps with one part of aviation: CAS. during a real match, you would have to look out for enemy jets, learn evasive maneuvers, and be wary of targets anywhere on the ground, not just in the bunker complex.

And if training is there to help us familiarize with our vehicles and tactics, how can we ignore the most important part in a pilot's aviation tactics: dog fighting?

[Dude388]

Just give each sides equal amount of vehicles and put spawns for both teams at the bunkers. And maybe some static AAs for both teams

This works for me, but a little clarification.

Here's my two suggestions in response to this:



OR



P.S.
My reason for not adding a map with each team having one side with three bunkers to to practice flanking maneuvers and to keep close battles if no one wants to try long range front line battles.

[Waaah_Wah]

^^Yeah something like that

[Dude388]

^^Yeah something like that

Does one appeal more to you than the other? I was rather partial to the one with an enemy spawn behind and in front of you.

2 directions of enemy assault + 1 solid defense in a bunker = 1 great defensive learning experience!

[McBumLuv]

Yea, dude, that's probably one of the better ways to do it (I'd still like to see scattered vehicles around the maps for CAS training).

Maybe we can get an [R-xxx] to comment on anything happening with this.


A bit off topic but not too much, has anyone been on a weird version of Kashan training with destroyed destructibles and a different flag lay-out (flag named parking-lot, for example)? I'm still confused at when I saw this.

[Dude388]

Yea, dude, that's probably one of the better ways to do it (I'd still like to see scattered vehicles around the maps for CAS training).

Maybe we can get an [R-xxx] to comment on anything happening with this.


A bit off topic but not too much, has anyone been on a weird version of Kashan training with destroyed destructibles and a different flag lay-out (flag named parking-lot, for example)? I'm still confused at when I saw this.

Thanks for your comments Mcluv.

As for the weirdness you mentioned, the only thing I've seen is the wrecked buildings. However, I was informed that the were wrecked earlier by a helicopter raping the INFANTRY spawn completely. As for the flags out of place, the training flags are different from server to server (I've been told some admins alter their maps, though I've yet to be confirmed about that).

[McBumLuv]

ok, thanks, I tried the search function, but it came up with nothing. It all makes sense now

[Snowno]

The first time my clan tried to launch the 0.8 training map on our server it launched some weird Kashan training with a new F-18, etc. though half of the runway was gone.
A couple of seconds later the server crashed.

But yeah, the community made training map was a lot better than the one made by the Dev's.

[davetboy_19]

The first time my clan tried to launch the 0.8 training map on our server it launched some weird Kashan training with a new F-18, etc. though half of the runway was gone.
A couple of seconds later the server crashed.

But yeah, the community made training map was a lot better than the one made by the Dev's.

The map isnt bad its just that people abuse it too much. IMO it should be scraped and just have training off line.

People cant help themselves and just use it as a normal server and kill all the new players THAT WE NEED!...getting killed 400 times while playing as a MEC soldier isnt fun when you cant kill the 3 or more A-10's and 10+ tanks spawn raping you.

[Truism]

Kashan has potential, but pub use just exposes the problems in the AA system to too much abuse. Flares are a joke, and with any more than 3 jets up, AA becomes an absolutely sick joke compared to the rain of flares.

Centering the AA in one place does nothing to teach pilots how to flare, or how to evade. It just encourages rape runs on the bombing range over and over again. AA spawns in completely open places vulnerable to both AA and tanks, and infantry spawns are no better.

Firstly, there should be unkillable stationary super AA that makes the person sitting in it invulnerable too set in positions where they will be able to eat up jets, but not choppers - I wouldn't say no to some kind of imba laser system. Secondly, Tunguskas should spawn inside the bunkers, as should humans.

I have been on the wrong end of Kashan spawn raping before. If I was a new player, I can say without any reservations that it would have made me quit PR. It's very obvious the map isn't being used the way it was intended, and those who are perpetrating it should be ashamed of themselves because they're probably going to get the map wrecked for legitimate users.

[Tirak]

This works for me, but a little clarification.

Here's my two suggestions in response to this:

This one, definitely this one, but place some also keep the APC spawns, and the map really needs a firing range. But yeah, the weakness of training mode is that you can't practice anything else with the jets. Me and a friend hopped onto a server and sure, it's great for practicing special weapons like the Grenadier Kit, and it's absolutely wonderful for CAS training and helps you get better at dodging AA, though most people who fly on Training make these nice low and slow swooping banks making them Tunguska fodder, but we wanted to practice some Air To Air and you can't do that because the MEC have no air. Basically we resorted to Dumb Bomb training on a moving and fixed target and accurate strikes while I sat in US Main scaring the **** out of the one other guy on the server.

[Dude388]

This one, definitely this one, but place some also keep the APC spawns, and the map really needs a firing range. But yeah, the weakness of training mode is that you can't practice anything else with the jets. Me and a friend hopped onto a server and sure, it's great for practicing special weapons like the Grenadier Kit, and it's absolutely wonderful for CAS training and helps you get better at dodging AA, though most people who fly on Training make these nice low and slow swooping banks making them Tunguska fodder, but we wanted to practice some Air To Air and you can't do that because the MEC have no air. Basically we resorted to Dumb Bomb training on a moving and fixed target and accurate strikes while I sat in US Main scaring the **** out of the one other guy on the server.

Hows this then?
(I'll explain after the pic)




The Green BR icons on the map will have spawning armor and vehicles that you can practice CAS on, while being close to your base and far enough from the enemy. These will only be armor/vehicle spawn, infantry can't spawn their....though if they get there they can you them against you, so be aware and have you Designators keep you updated.

Tell me if this works for you.

[McBumLuv]

^^Yes, Win!

Though, another pet peeve is the lack of Commander Outpost for MEC, which I'm sure will be addressed, right?

What do people think about a 100 meters out of bounds on the main base though? Let's give these acclaimed "'nilla n00bs" a chance to learn assets without being spawn raped for once, because we were all n00bs too at one point, remember?

[Dude388]

^^Yes, Win!

Though, another pet peeve is the lack of Commander Outpost for MEC, which I'm sure will be addressed, right?

I get on adding that to the map

EDIT: Here you go!

What do people think about a 100 meters out of bounds on the main base though? Let's give these acclaimed "'nilla n00bs" a chance to learn assets without being spawn raped for once, because we were all n00bs too at one point, remember?

Well personally speaking, I like when player base rape me for multiple reasons:

1. You won't have to worry about it in normal servers, due to the fact that armor doesn't have anything to rape because of vehicle spawn times and by the time they reach your base, you have FO's set up and your armor and planes are already active and on the battlefield. And these rapers are easy enough to dispatch, trust me.

2. If they are raping, they aren't really assisting their team. They aren't on the front line helping push forward the attack. While our teams infantry and armor can move in from behind and take them, or just ignore them and continue forward taking flags with no armor opposition.

3. Some servers allow base rape (not sure why), and it good practice for them to learn how to counter this tactic.

[McBumLuv]

Ya, I guess. And if servers have a problem with it, then they can always make their own rules.