Marksman's precision rifle,,bugged?

[EXP-NoBody]

today i was using British's precision rifle..i prone..i aim..and i fire on enemy..the aim is dead on..after i fire like 3 shots..the enemy still there..and it's in close range..why is that? chinese precision rifle dont have this prolem..same for US's M21..

[gazzthompson]

i dont think the LSW is bugged i remember one marksman being bugged at one point, but wasnt LSW and dont think it is now.

[cptste el_74]

The M14 is the one that's known to be bugged isn't it?

I must admit I have had trouble with the LSW tho...

[Spec]

afaik, the DMR's all have normal rifle accuracy. Their accuracy will be increased for 0.85 though, iirc.

[Caboosehatesbabies]

^^^ He's correct, there's a post in the DEV Journal that talks about it.

[nedlands1]

No No No. You're all wrong. The Marksmen rifles all have the same deviation. The deviation is only marginally better than the normal rifles though. As you have seen in the Dev journal, this will be addressed in the next patch.

EDIT: The marksmen rifle for the USMC and US army is currently the M14 in-game, not the M21.

[Jigsaw]

Marksman isnt bugged, you are ;P

[Aranykai]

EDIT: The marksmen rifle for the USMC and US army is currently the M14 in-game, not the M21.

The M21 is just a target grade m14 with a 3-9x leatherwood scope on it Oh, and match grade ammo should be used also, but again, its the same gun.

[Waaah_Wah]

No No No. You're all wrong. The Marksmen rifles all have the same deviation. The deviation is only marginally better than the normal rifles though. As you have seen in the Dev journal, this will be addressed in the next patch.

EDIT: The marksmen rifle for the USMC and US army is currently the M14 in-game, not the M21.

M21 is pretty much the same as M14

[nedlands1]

You sure? Because if every marksman rifle is better than the standard rifles and they all have the same deviation then I must be incredibly unlucky.... or at least more so than I thought.

I'm 100% sure. If you wish to confirm it for yourself then go to C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\Battlefield 2\mods\pr\objects\objects_server.zip\Weapons\Handheld and then open up the .tweak files located in the following folders:

chsni_type88 (Chinese Type 88 rifle)
insrg_dragunov (Insurgent's SVD)
rurif_dragunov (Militia's SVD)
gbrif_l86 (British L86 LSW)
mecrif_g3sg1 (MEC's G3SG/1)
usrif_m14 (American M14)

Now compare the code between "rem ---BeginComp:SoldierDeviationComp ---" and the first "rem ---EndComp ---". This is the code which determines how the cone of fire changes. Notice that the values are all the same for each of these weapons. Now you can do the same comparing all the "iron sight" (aimpoint included) rifles and the "scoped" rifles. All the scoped rifles should have the same deviation and all the iron sight rifles should have the same deviation. The real difference between the three is the deviation modifier for stance(...devModStand, ....devModCrouch and ...devModLie). It is highest for the iron sight rifles and lowest for the marksmen rifles. Consequently the marksmen rifles are the most accurate of the bunch.

On one occasion i've fired the svd at a US soldier around 100-120 metres away while prone. These were perfectly spaced shots and I only fired while he was stationary and completely exposed. He finally spotted me after I loaded my 3rd (and last) magazine, he proned, sighted in and fired off about six rounds, killing me in about 3-4 seconds. This happened on ramiel a few weeks ago, the only marksman rifle i've had a good experince with is the british one, all the others are horribly inaccurate.

Exiled.

It's luck I'm afraid. Hopefully in the next version it won't be as dependent on luck. With the cone of fire being as large as it is, you are probably best going for centre of mass shots as opposed to headshots in most scenarios.

[nedlands1]

Why is the scoped rifle more accurate than iron sights? I mean its not just the stance modifier thats different but also the deviation added for shooting, moving, turning and the stance modifier would also impact these values too wouldn't it? Why is the firing values the same as those for moving? And why does it reach the maximum value after one shot, it would be better if it reached maximum after two or three that way shooting in small bursts or double tapping would be a little more effective than it is now.

In short, because of the quick sight in times that the ironsight/aimpoints have relative to the scoped rifles. It must have been felt that that the extra deviation was needed to counteract the advantage that the ironsights/aimpoints have in close combat. The stance modifier should effect everything, yes. I'm not sure the exact reason why shooting was made to have the same impact as moving. However, when there wasn't a significant deviation due to firing, the victor was often the person who clicked faster. You have a point there with the firing deviation not promoting small bursts or double taps. In the case of the LMG's, the deviation is set up so that shorts bursts incur less deviation then large ones.

I would like to point out that I was going for centre of mass shots (like I mostly do with the exception of when using sniper rifles or coming up on an enemy unnoticed) which is why I was only shooting when he was fully exposed. To be honest, while missing from real short distances after doing everything correct (firing from ideal conditions) is a little stupid, what is really anoying is when the enemy I engage beats me or even wounds me by doing something absolutely pathetic like instaproning and spinning 180 degrees while firing in my general direction. I have no problems with missing due to deviation as long as it makes sense and it doesn't end with me dying from some new player straight from vbf2 instaproning at 100m and headshotting me or some other ridiculous feat.

Exiled.

I totally agree, but the reverse can happen too and be overlooked. People won't complain that they got a lucky shot but they will be more inclined to get annoyed if they are on the receiving end. Personally I tend to vent loudly on VOIP with colourful language and forget about it later.

[sav112]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying I’m not playing the game anymore but its been a good few weeks. The reason after reading and online chat with fellow members I feel I can’t shot anymore. I can have sniper rifles and the normal guy with the standard rifle can own me at distance….

You are on the ground taking aim and care and missing and they turn around and see you and bang about six shots on target. Plus close range when you think it’s impossible to miss say a group in a passage or door you miss as shots hit the ground.

I know the grenade launcher was toned down but it’s unrealistic, I don’t know unless its miles away that it will go off. I was on top of a roof and tried to cover my fellow squad member on the other building when enemy were running up a lower stair well, shot three times nothing….can this be addressed?

And please don’t use the “people don’t like on the receiving end” well whats that all about that the thickest thing I’ve read on here for ages…..Think you’ll find players don’t mind getting killed as long as they think they have the same chance of killing with accurate rifles…..

So can we take it the guns have deviation beyond anything realistic to keep players happy by not getting killed….????


I moved here from normal BF2 for the simple reason the guns actually killed and it was refreshing, so refreshing I had to change my total way of playing and thinking as Rambo mode just did not work and appreciated having to slowly move and cover as a squad. Yes I got owned at first but it’s what kept me playing….trying to improve myself as a player but when you move the deviation etc it knocks you off your game…..

The maps look fantastic
The equipment variation great
Ok the commander is needed reworked
Guns need to be accurate as they were designed to be and what the hay if they kill…..


THink we just want our guns to shoot like real and not
anything else for the sake of game play………….

[nedlands1]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying I’m not playing the game anymore but its been a good few weeks. The reason after reading and online chat with fellow members I feel I can’t shot anymore. I can have sniper rifles and the normal guy with the standard rifle can own me at distance….

Are you waiting at least 8 seconds after each shot and between forwards, backwards and/or strafing motions?

I know the grenade launcher was toned down but it’s unrealistic, I don’t know unless its miles away that it will go off. I was on top of a roof and tried to cover my fellow squad member on the other building when enemy were running up a lower stair well, shot three times nothing….can this be addressed?

Well the arming delay for the nades is 0.4 seconds and the muzzle velocity is 77m/s in-game. Assuming there is no drop, after 30.8m the grenade should arm. In reality such grenades have fuses that arm between 14-27m (Source: FM 23-31 Chptr 3 - Description and Maintenance). I tested this in-game and found the actual detonation range to be within 30-31m. Hardly "miles away" by any measure.

And please don’t use the “people don’t like on the receiving end” well whats that all about that the thickest thing I’ve read on here for ages…..Think you’ll find players don’t mind getting killed as long as they think they have the same chance of killing with accurate rifles…..

Actually it's not the case. There are people who were totally pissed off at being shot in the head with super accurate rifles at every opportunity. Not to mention how unrealistic it is to be able to do so. I will concede that there are probably more people who are disappointed with the current state of affairs then before. As always, it's a case of finding a balance. We've isolated what the one extreme is and also what the other is. Now it's the time to find the middle ground.

So can we take it the guns have deviation beyond anything realistic to keep players happy by not getting killed….????

THink we just want our guns to shoot like real and not
anything else for the sake of game play………….

Well it's just the case of getting guns to "shoot like real". It's a case of getting the guns and the player to "shoot like real". When you are doing unsupported shooting, the element which is introducing the most inaccuracy is likely to be the shooter, not the gun. Since we don't have a weapon sway system in BF2 (unlike BF2142 I might add), we can't properly model this. Instead the deviation has to be beefed up to approximate this.

[Jaymz]

@ Exiled : Funny you mention the whole "two shots for maximum" thing about firedev. That's the way it will be in 0.85.

[Waaah_Wah]

@ Exiled : Funny you mention the whole "two shots for maximum" thing about firedev. That's the way it will be in 0.85.

Yay!

[sav112]

Are you waiting at least 8 seconds after each shot and between forwards, backwards and/or strafing motions?

Eight seconds, not usually I thought it was three! The bigger problem was not me missing but the fact I’m getting sniped by an automatic… from distance and they are all hitting a foot diameter around me and blowing my head off….. all in 2 seconds flat…when I took my time to settle and miss…. eight seems so long.....what I'm doing loading the gun and varnishing it as well..... ops:

Now it's the time to find the middle ground.

Got to be said guns are accurate if aimed, I should know my father was a balistics expert in the police, Ex Soldier and seen enough guns fired over the years, god even my old Mini-Crossbow was deadly at 100 yards.

Don’t get me wrong I appreciate all the work gone in, but its things like that that are killing it for me….that and the aspirated running stamina that lasts for 5 seconds for an elite soldier when you have to stop half way across a road, take a rest and slowly walk off even if the jeep is heading for me. Trust me a jeep heading for me would make me move…..its like treacle and you simply can only put up with it for so long before you switch off…….

[gazzthompson]

Got to be said guns are accurate if aimed, I should know my father was a balistics expert in the police, Ex Soldier and seen enough guns fired over the years, god even my old Mini-Crossbow was deadly at 100 yards.

"guns have the ability to be 100% accurate, the only variable is the shooter" - remember hearing that some where, paraphased.


deviation ingame is NOT suggesting guns are that innacurate IRL, its saying the soldier is.

how fast dose the inageme soldier jog ?? because you cant walk ingame (without being scoped in) i would say our avatars are pretty fit.

[sav112]

"guns have the ability to be 100% accurate, the only variable is the shooter" - remember hearing that some where, paraphased.


deviation ingame is NOT suggesting guns are that innacurate IRL, its saying the soldier is.

But the thinking on here is not is it’s the gun or the shooter, it’s the fact does the game let you be accurate at all in my mind.