What the heck is up with the Red/Green tracers?

[Upplandsvasby]

Well I can tell you that tracers are used at least by the Swedish army in Afghanistan. We always had a tracer for each fourth bullet in the magazine. The purpose is as said in the thread to show where you are shooting at.

It is also normal that people put tracers in the last 3 or 5 bullets in the magazine. This is to show you when you are getting out of ammo.

Peace

[(HUN)Rud3bwoy]

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease quote a source for this......

Im looking for it
It was a video on liveleak, where the soldier holding the camera commented what was happening, and Im think he said that the machine gunner uses his tracer rounds to help getting a lock.
I will definiately post it here if I find it.

Edit:
Okay, I've found the video, and now it is clear that they DONT use tracers to get a heat lock for javelins, I misunderstood the cameraman(I should improve my auditive comprehension...), but here is the video anyways :
LiveLeak.com - "Too Bad He Only Has One Missile"

[Solid Knight]

Do you really need to have a source if you have a video?

[(HUN)Rud3bwoy]

No, if you watch the video then you see that the cameraman doesent say that they are using tracers for a lock, and you can see that the machine gunner is not shooting in same same direction where the javelin hits, so this video does not support the "tracer-to-heat-lock theory.

[Bob_Marley]

Remember the scimitar? That was like star wars when it rolled down basrah road.

The Tanguska on greasy back in 0.4/5 was the best. Green laserbeams all over the shop!

[pclipse_teh_owner]

Jaymz;848247']This is incorrect. They are used in combat.

In real life,

NATO = Red Tracers

Warsaw Pact = Green Tracers

Like Waah_wah said, insurgents don't use tracers (even in PR )

Warsaw pact non existent anymore.

And Poland is in NATO now.

[single.shot (nor)]

i think by saying warsaw pact they meant former warsaw-pact nations

[Hitperson]

so former eastern bloc

[daranz]

Warsaw Pact might be gone, but in most conflicts that NATO/US fought since 1990, their enemies used Warsaw Pact equipment. And with Warsaw Pact equipment come Warsaw Pact tracers.

And tracers are quite useful in PR. First of all they let you direct your own MG fire more easily, and second, the allow you to see where your enemies are firing. They also make you easier to spot by the enemy, as they work both ways, but if you're putting any significant number of tracers on the enemy, chances are you aren't being all that stealthy anyway.

[jbgeezer]

Tracer colors has something to do with the chemicals used on the tip of the bullet.

[Spec]

Its not the warsaw pact, but its still a coalition versus another coalition. The chinese and MEC might as well use yellow or blue tracers. Maybe MEC and chinese could have different tracers. But anyway, from all i know it is not unrealistic that the coalitions use tracers.

As you may have noticed, submachine guns, pistols, and the weapons of all insurgents do not use tracers either. For the insurgents, because they probably dont want to be seen, and for the other weapons, because they don't use normal rifle ammo and are designed for close quarters.
Sniper rifles and the weapons of special forces don't have tracers either, because they also do not want to be seen.

But those classes of the regular armies that are not designed for stealth (or carry their weapons as PDW's only) have tracers.

Red for NATO and Green for... whatever you call the others. Usualy its just "Team 1".

Though it might not even be a bad idea to give the MEC and the chinese different colors for the tracers, since they are not exactly a "NATO"... The MEC is a "NATO" actually.

[strima]

Sniper rifles and the weapons of special forces don't have tracers either, because they also do not want to be seen.

Snipers rarely use tracer due to the different flight characteristics of the tracer round. The glow you see is burning phosphorus that only burns for a short distance but this alters the weight of the round in relation to a standard ball round. Basically meaning you would have to adjust your aim when firing either ball or tracer.


Although a tracer round will travel a great distance the burn time is normally around 2-3 seconds due to the limited supply of phosphorus that can be crammed into it.

[Ondskan]

The only reason I can see using tracers if you are fighting a guerilla army that basicly knows where you are but you have no clue of were they are.

I can't see any reason to use it in conventional fights.
Seriously...Look at you trying to defend it. "If you're using many tracers, you aren't being stealthy anyway".

<Sigh> That's not the issue, and I don't. The issue is that if I'm in a squad I can report through my VOIP were the enemy is. It is not a "Good" tradeoff to shoot tracers on the enemy, give up your position and thus show theirs. Why you ask?

I can't belive that I have to explain it to you. Even if I through my VOIP can't show the enemy location precisely, I can still point my squad in the right direction. This gives MY squad an advantage. If I start shooting at the enemy to show the location then my squad and the enemy squad are on the same level of advantages which negates the previous advantage (albeit smaller) that my squad had through the VOIP.


And yep, I knew about the last bullets being tracers in some cases but I highly doubt that if there was a war between China and America now that any team would use tracers except in emergency cases...or there is some sick reason for the war where the goal is to kill as many people from both countries as possible.

Also PR isn't very realistic in many cases as I've talked about earlier.
Obviously Rally Points aren't realistic, Aiming isn't realistic because of limitations of the engine, the sprint mode is way to short and the "recovery" time from the strain of the sprint is also to short, in some cases the use of weapons seems way to slow. For example, it takes 30 sec or something to mount a HMG already on the ground and ready to fire, which I can imagine would take just a few secs to do in reality (even tho the aim would be horrible).

And things like this. So don't tell me that this is something we do because it's "realistic". Many things in this game are done for the sake of ballance, and I think that in this game, the tracers just make no sense.

So can we discuss from this point of view? I also think that they wouldn't be used in any big conventional war because as explained above, the second you shoot with your gun and with the tracer, you loose your advantage.

[Ondskan]

The Tanguska on greasy back in 0.4/5 was the best. Green laserbeams all over the shop!

You people actually havae freakin tracers on AA...oh yeah you do?
Am I just an idiot when it comes to military strategy or isn't it a dead give away to start shooting with tracers up the air when a possible second aircraft can be coming in, seeing it and fucking owning your ***?

[Solid Knight]

I don't believe the use of tracers are mandated in real life. I believe the shooter gets to choose if he wants to have tracers or not and where and how many. In real life you could have a mix of magazines that had tracers and lacked tracers. Obviously this cannot be reflected in PR. The compromise is to remove tracers in weapons or kit load outs where its unlikely for them to occur. Same goes for vehicles. Albeit in some vehicle mounted weapons you can see the bullets distortion in the air. They aren't tracers but you can see the blur. Perhaps give some vehicles a smokey colored tracer for this effect.

[Ondskan]

I don't believe the use of tracers are mandated in real life. I believe the shooter gets to choose if he wants to have tracers or not and where and how many. In real life you could have a mix of magazines that had tracers and lacked tracers. Obviously this cannot be reflected in PR. The compromise is to remove tracers in weapons or kit load outs where its unlikely for them to occur. Same goes for vehicles. Albeit in some vehicle mounted weapons you can see the bullets distortion in the air. They aren't tracers but you can see the blur. Perhaps give some vehicles a smokey colored tracer for this effect.

Exacly my point of view!

More important, if possibly, I think that traces should be an option!
Why not one more sub menue at each weapon?
Imagine this... You Press T, then Kit, then you click say...Marksman...And now you can pick if you want tracers or not!

Wouldn't this be awesome?

The classic 5 kits don't have tracers, but if you want someone to mark targets for you in your squad, you tell one of your squad members to take a marksman or an automatic rifle kit WITH tracers.



Gogogogo Thanks for pointing out exacly what I wanted and giving me this idea.

[Aranykai]

Notice anything about every 5th round? That's an M240B of the 4th Infantry, stationed in Iraq, September of 06.

[gazzthompson]

i find having tracers in my rifle very use full.

[daranz]

The only reason I can see using tracers if you are fighting a guerilla army that basicly knows where you are but you have no clue of were they are.

I can't see any reason to use it in conventional fights.
Seriously...Look at you trying to defend it. "If you're using many tracers, you aren't being stealthy anyway".

<Sigh> That's not the issue, and I don't. The issue is that if I'm in a squad I can report through my VOIP were the enemy is. It is not a "Good" tradeoff to shoot tracers on the enemy, give up your position and thus show theirs. Why you ask?

I can't belive that I have to explain it to you. Even if I through my VOIP can't show the enemy location precisely, I can still point my squad in the right direction. This gives MY squad an advantage. If I start shooting at the enemy to show the location then my squad and the enemy squad are on the same level of advantages which negates the previous advantage (albeit smaller) that my squad had through the VOIP.


And yep, I knew about the last bullets being tracers in some cases but I highly doubt that if there was a war between China and America now that any team would use tracers except in emergency cases...or there is some sick reason for the war where the goal is to kill as many people from both countries as possible.

Suppressive fire isn't meant to be stealthy. Your position is pretty much given away when you start using suppressive fire, so by that time it doesn't really matter if you use tracers or not. Even if you didn't, putting out a significant volume of fire makes you quite obvious. Therefore, if you are using a lot of tracers, you've already decided not to be stealthy.

In order to see a tracer, you need either be looking right at the enemy, or he needs to miss in front of your field of vision. In the first case, using tracers doesn't put the enemy at much of a disadvantage, because you are looking at him anyway. Misses in front of your field of vision won't give away your enemy's exact position, but merely the general direction from which the fire is coming. That is often easy to tell without seeing tracers, and most people instinctively determine it when they come under fire, and take cover in the appropriate direction, based on the most likely position of the enemy, bullet impacts, sound, etc. On top of this, if you are the target of the tracer, you are going to experience suppression effect, making it difficult for you to find the enemy immediately after the impact.

As to tracers at the end of the mag, it's not much of an issue in real life because firefights involve entire squads of soldiers. The enemy isn't gonna have time to notice that one of the guys firing on him is running out of ammo if there's 10 other people continuing to shoot anyway.

[Cassius]

The green ones is the imperium the red ones the rebels. Gaws dont they teach anything at school no more o.O ?