CQB/Urban Sniper

[mrnothing]

Hey its mr nothing
i checked if this was said already and it hasn't so here it goes.

So my suggestion to put into PR is to have not a really a class, but a urban or CQB sniper. So im sure you guys/girls don't know what i mean. What im trying to say is depending on the map you are, there are going to be 2 different sniper's. For big, open maps where there is a lot of environmental objects (tree's, grass, river's, hills and so on), the sniper would get a bolt action rifle like usual. Since the sniper is in a ghillie suit, he's able to stay hidden with his surroundings. And the sniper would use a bolt action rifle because they seem to be more accurate over a semi auto sniper + you've got lots of time to observe or shoot a target.

But now on the other side, for a closed in, urban area (alot of buildings and structures) the sniper would have a semi automatic sniper rifle (not being specific on which one). This is because since your in a cqb area, there's not alot of time in order to switch from target to target, and the delay to cycle a round every time can mean the difference between hitting the target, or the target hitting you. With a semi auto rifle, your able to quickly stay or switch targets without the delay of cycling the weapon. The down side though is that maybe the range of the weapon or effective damage of the weapon is not as effective as a bolt action rifle. The last thing that should be changed is the uniform for the sniper. Unlike in a open, environmental zone, having a ghillie suit wouldn't help you blend into anything. I think it would actually stand out more because there's parts of leaves and grass sticking out on your suit. Also, if the enemy were to notice that you had a different outfit and they notice it's a sniper outfit, you would probably be the first one dead, meaning that no one is able to give the squad long range observation and cover.A regular BDU would help more because the new camo's the u.s. military uses are used to help with blending in a cqb area (don't know the full story but a bit)and if your in a squad but everyone has the same BDU, the enemy might not be able to spot who's most important to kill first.

so please comment on this and what you think of it

PS - sorry for bad grammar >,<

[Scot]

This to an extent is what the Marksman kit is for. The Marksman kit is semi automatic in all factions and is used at a squad level to take out targets that are at long range but still within a 6 man squad. They can enter Cities, for example on EJOD, a good marksman can be lethal.

[Rudd]

This to an extent is what the Marksman kit is for. The Marksman kit is semi automatic in all factions and is used at a squad level to take out targets that are at long range but still within a 6 man squad. They can enter Cities, for example on EJOD, a good marksman can be lethal.

this

[mrnothing]

Your correct. The marksmen rifle is a bit of an extent. But marksmen rifle might not have the effective range as a sniper rifle does. In my POV, a soldier with a marksmen kit would still be in a squad, but giving longer range then the ordinary assault rifle, but still maintain the role as a squad member. With a Sniper, they would be positioned in a area or building where they could give information to the CO or SL, without blowing there cover or position. Sometimes, a marksmen would be good as a spotter for the sniper, because marksmen could give co-ordinates or directions to a target, but the sniper would have the capability to take down the target.


Also to point one more thing out, the sniper in a CQB area could be great as a counter sniper. Unlike a marksmen who would stay in his squad, a counter sniper could help with taking out other enemy sniper's who pose a threat to the squad and there objective. Again, with the role of a marksmen kicking in, the marksmen could give co-ordinates to the enemy sniper while in a squad, but the counter sniper would either take it, or inform other squads to attack that area or avoid or call in the CO to make a arti strike or air to ground strike.

[jbgeezer]

This to an extent is what the Marksman kit is for. The Marksman kit is semi automatic in all factions and is used at a squad level to take out targets that are at long range but still within a 6 man squad. They can enter Cities, for example on EJOD, a good marksman can be lethal.

Yes but marksmen are told to stay with their squad, so they arent relley a CQB sniper

[Scot]

Well you don't really need a CQB sniper, it contradicts itself. A sniper is for long range shots, but CQB is CQB I can see what you are saying, but I don't think it's needed as the role can be filled by the marksman. Also to contradict myself again, snipers can be used in the city, check this video:

[jbgeezer]

Yeah I do agree with you here, nice video btw, thats how people should play PR everywhere at all times

[mrnothing]

Well you don't really need a CQB sniper, it contradicts itself. A sniper is for long range shots, but CQB is CQB

I agree snipers are made to take out long range targets. But on the other half, i disagree. There not always made to take out targets. Why are they such a important strategy, and why are they needed more ? because they have the capability to observe the battle zone without blowing there position. Who knows you might meet a former sniper that's never taken out a enemy target, but they might have given valuable information to the CO or SL that could have saved the lives of the squad members (now its soundy cheesy lol)or given information that helped accomplish a mission.

Yes, CQB is CQB. When this occurs the role of a sniper is dramatically changed. Again still used to take out long range targets, but there are higher stakes now. Target's appear a lot quicker, and chances of being spotted are higher. This is when things like switching to a semi automatic rifle and changing his BDU to help blend in with the area help the sniper do his role. Even though factor's like being spotted are higher and targets appearing faster are there, at least they don't have to worry about standing out as much with a ghillie suit, or having to worry about staying on target because they have to cycle a round each time. It gives the sniper more time to think on what he needs to do or is going to do.

[gazzthompson]

they should not glorify the sniper kit anymore, its already used 99% of the time for the wrong role. if some one wants to give intel ect in a city they dont need a sniper rifle anyways.

and FYI the ghillie is usless , it dosn't draw distance over 15m+

[Waaah_Wah]

Why the hostility against snipers? Its a useful and powerful kit, so lets not dumb it down because some people cant use it correctly.

[gazzthompson]

if i had my way the sniper kit would be removed. i know its cliche to hate on snipers ect but they are never(ofc some times) used correctly , not even the marksman kit is used correctly 100% of time.


for e.g i was in a squad some guy asked to get marksman, SL said ok but you will stick with your squad !!! guy was like "yea yea ofc". we fighting it out, i die and check map.. where is marksman ?? 200m away on hill.

[daranz]

for e.g i was in a squad some guy asked to get marksman, SL said ok but you will stick with your squad !!! guy was like "yea yea ofc". we fighting it out, i die and check map.. where is marksman ?? 200m away on hill.

The one time I actually grabbed a marksman kit online, on Op Archer, my SL decided that I was the L33t SN1PEZOR of the squad, and decided to leave me in the hills when he obtained a Humvee, after which I had to walk into the town by myself. So, I guess it goes both ways, when it comes to people's expectation of the marksman kit.

Either way, back to the topic, I don't really see the point of having an urban sniper. Either he's a sniper with a precision rifle, and he stays behind friendly troops or in cover; or, he's a marksman and engages targets at closer range while staying with a squad. There's no room for a close range sniper with this arrangement. If they are going to be engaging multiple targets rapidly, they're essentially marksmen and probably should have a squad to back them up. If they are going to be reporting on enemy movement to the commander, then they don't need to use rapid fire and can stay snipers with their high precision rifles.

As to having semi-auto rifles with longer effective range than the marksman rifles, there's really no need to engage targets at long ranges in an urban environment.

[Scot]

I agree, but snipers used effectively the few times they are gazz, can be devastating.

[charliegrs]

id say just give the sniper a regular camo suit in city maps and the ghillie suit in more open maps. but dont change anything other than that.

[Rudd]

perhaps removal of the Ghille suit would be a good idea really, for cities at least, maybe people will treat it less as a L337 kit and do their job. (though, I've actually been lucky and seen some very good recon snipers on Muttrah lately)

[crazy11]

Muttrah was a map made for snipers. I will just sit at docks and pick off anyone defending the harbor but i can also provide the team will intel on enemy movements.
I dont think that there is a need for a CQB sniper because you should not have to engage a target on a street more than 600m away and that could be left to the marksman.

[mrnothing]

they should not glorify the sniper kit anymore, its already used 99% of the time for the wrong role. if some one wants to give intel ect in a city they dont need a sniper rifle anyways.

and FYI the ghillie is usless , it dosn't draw distance over 15m+

No means to be rude, but i disagree. Snipers are a very important part of the battle field, whether they are engaging high priority targets, engaging targets that pose a threat to any friendlies, or observing and collecting important information that could be used later. People who don't use it correctly are probably those who want to choose a kit last minute and then run around like there rambo or something.

But then there are those who choose the kit cause they know how much the sniper kit has an advantage of. They'll probably use that kit in places where they could observe what's going on and collect information to tell to there CO or SL.

And one more thing, the ghillie suit is not useless at all. I've been a sniper numerous of time's and used it in area's where i was well camouflaged with the surroundings - and no one could find me or tell which direction they were get shot from.

Either way, back to the topic, I don't really see the point of having an urban sniper. Either he's a sniper with a precision rifle, and he stays behind friendly troops or in cover; or, he's a marksman and engages targets at closer range while staying with a squad. There's no room for a close range sniper with this arrangement. If they are going to be engaging multiple targets rapidly, they're essentially marksmen and probably should have a squad to back them up. If they are going to be reporting on enemy movement to the commander, then they don't need to use rapid fire and can stay snipers with their high precision rifles.

As to having semi-auto rifles with longer effective range than the marksman rifles, there's really no need to engage targets at long ranges in an urban environment.

Sniper's are trained to work either alone or usually with someone else, who would be the spotter. And unfortunately, because war has been taken into CQB area's where the stakes are higher, it probably has become a harder job for the sniper. But that doesn't mean there is no need for a sniper in a closed area.

[A "Squad Designated Marksman" or a "Designated Marksman" should not be confused with a sniper. United States marksmen rarely operate individually. Snipers are often deployed for specific objectives in teams consisting of snipers and observers. The marksman, however, operates as a regular member within a unit where his skills are called upon whenever the need for accurate shooting arises in the normal course of operations. While snipers are intensively trained to master fieldcraft and camouflage, these skills are not required for marksmen. There are differences in role and training that affect doctrines and equipment. Snipers rely almost exclusively on more accurate but slower-firing bolt-action rifles, such as the M24, while a marksman can effectively use a faster-firing, but less accurate semi-automatic rifle, such as the M14. A sniper's intensive training, forward placement and surveillance duties make their role more strategic than that of a squad-level marksman. Thus, marksmen are often attached at the squad level while snipers are often attached at higher levels such as battalion (cf.: designated marksman). In short, an "SDM" or "DM" is a regular infantryman that extends the effective range of a combat squad, while a sniper is deployed to gather information and eliminate specific targets.]


As you can see there is a difference between a marksmen and a sniper. Marksmen still maintain there roll as a squad member, but are needed for long distance shots.

Snipers on the other hand are very lethal weapons. They can be used in many ways. They communicate back and forth to the CO or SL to give information. They can be used to take out long range target's without compromising their position. They can be counter-snipers. They can be used for physiological warfare. If one of your squad members were taken out, but you had no idea where it came from, there's a chance your the next one. Sniper's are able to stop a whole squad, and who knows that squad might not even make a move even though they must do an objective.

[waldo_ii]

Has anyone tried sniping/intel gathering from the two boats in the harbor? Not the docked one, the new wooden one and the rusty old one that are just in the middle of the harbor.

You can see a fair bit from there, relatively simple to insert. I started up a local and flew there with a littlebird. Both have plenty of cover from every direction, and the wooden one has zero penetration(!).

Only problem is not getting shot down while inserting, let alone not being noticed while inserting. On a non-full server it shouldn't be a problem though.



And yeah, marksman is generally better than sniper, except for information gathering, which requires stealth (provided by the Ghilli suit)

[Waaah_Wah]

if i had my way the sniper kit would be removed. i know its cliche to hate on snipers ect but they are never(ofc some times) used correctly , not even the marksman kit is used correctly 100% of time.


for e.g i was in a squad some guy asked to get marksman, SL said ok but you will stick with your squad !!! guy was like "yea yea ofc". we fighting it out, i die and check map.. where is marksman ?? 200m away on hill.

Tell us how to use the kit correctly please

[Rudd]

Tell us how to use the kit correctly please

Gazz is a great sniper, me an him were on Qwai a while back as USA and we didn't get many kills, but we kept a constant stream of intel going to he commander. I got impatient (I'm an aweful sniper) and got myself killed, but Gazz was level headed and kept himself alive and got a few kills and I think he didn't die once with teh sniper kit iirc.