Sidearms for Realism (AR/DM)

[AREM117]

Searched Keywords: sidearm, marksman, automatic, rifleman

IRL the Marksman and SAW Gunner carry a pistol along with their primary weapon. The DM and AR should get a Sidearm on their 9th Slot. If this were implimented it would add more realism to the game and would help two kits that lack in CQB. Due to the Marksman being a long range weapon and movement accuracy of the SAW.

[gazzthompson]

source for this claim of them carrying sidearm?

[AREM117]

"In general, all officers if combat deployed will carry a sidearm of choice, historically usually 1911a1 or M9 Baretta. Enlisted soldiers in Army or Marines will possibly carry a sidearm if a member of a mortar team, an automatic rifleman, advanced marksman, and Military Police also carry sidearms, and I am sure there are other circumstances where a sidearm will be issued instead of or in addition to a rifle or carbine. Special Ops is an entirely different issue in that most members are NCOs and officers and I am sure that those soldiers carry sidearms of choice as well, in which case it is purely up to the individual concerned."

Found this on a military forum.

[gazzthompson]

thats seems to be a post by a random person, though it might be right need better sources tbh

[jbgeezer]

At least DM should be given sidearm. If it is so IRL, who cares? Of cource in bigger issues, but this?

[ReadMenace]

I believe one of the reasons they have not given the Marksman a sidearm is to further inhibit a lone wolf mentality. The marksman should be operating as a part of a squad, and therefore should have plenty of small arms support for CQB situations.

I'm not saying that giving the Marksman a sidearm is unrealistic. A buddy of mine was a squad marksman in a Stryker brigade, he carried an M4 and his own Ruger P9 in addition to his M14, though I am in no way proposing this.

-REad

[pclipse_teh_owner]

source for this claim of them carrying sidearm?

America's Army....is all realism. Go play it. Then that's the source for my claim

[Rudd]

I wouldn't hate the AR or DM getting sidearms, as long as its confirmed by PR military advizors.

it might just be me, but I suck with teh AR in CQB, pistol would improve my game no end

[Scot]

But the thing is, no matter how much you suck, you wouldn't use a pistol in CQB, you would send in your riflemen to clear the CQB areas, while you cover with your AR.

[Dunehunter]

There are a bunch of actively serving people on these forums, I'd rather take their word over that of some random guy on a forum.

[gclark03]

Frankly, I don't really care about this argument that "it promotes a lone-wolf mentality". If they're stupid enough to lone-wolf with those kits, they deserve to get shot (which they will). Trying to fix stupidity with programming can be stupid itself.

That said, my opinion: If it's realistic, and there are VERY good sources, put it in. If not, get a real answer on whether it would be good for gameplay.

[AOD_Morph]

America's Army....is all realism. Go play it. Then that's the source for my claim

The units with pistols in that game you are refering to are in special forces maps where you play as green beret's...Not standard issue.

edit: for sniper maps, since when is the m82 a DMR??!? realism my ***

[badmojo420]

But the thing is, no matter how much you suck, you wouldn't use a pistol in CQB, you would send in your riflemen to clear the CQB areas, while you cover with your AR.

And when you spawn on a rally and have to move 200m through a CQB area to get back with your squad? There's always a circumstance where it could help to have a sidearm. No matter how good of a team player you are. It would be like saying they don't need field dressings, that would just increase lone wolfing, because you're always supposed to have a medic in your squad. Or a knife, because there should always be a rifleman around with more ammo.

I find that people want PR to be a re-creation of how combat is being faught by the armies it portrays. But I would rather think of it as a chance to take what is in use today, and use our own tactics. I'm not saying there should be bunny hopping death squads with shotguns. But when you limit yourself to stuff like no sidearm, because it discourages team play, then your vastly limiting yourself to deal with a number of situations that could arise in combat. And what for? To try and re-code a hardcoded idiot who doesn't use teamwork? Must we all suffer for the mistakes of a few.

btw...Sorry for the rant, i just wanted to approve of this suggestion.

[gazzthompson]

hipfire is real effective with marksman weapons

[Liquid_Cow]

I don't believe the M249 gunner carries a sidearm, he's got enough weight as it is, and the 249 has a folding stock which improves its use in CQB. Here's a photo of a Stryker fire team, man on pint has the SAW. You'll notice there is something on his right hip, but its not a sidearm, perhaps an ammo pouch?


I did a quick search for DMR images and found these:


Yes, he has a pistol, you can see 3 mags on the front of his vest and the strap for the holster on his left leg



Clearly has a pistol, though given that he's using an M-14ABR he's probably a Seal (was identified as a sailor in the photo caption)


Appears to have a side arm in a thigh holster


You can see the top of what looks like an M9 in a thigh holster on his right hip

So it does appear that DMR's are carrying. Hopefully Kenwayy will see this thread and comment, he's over there doing that right now.

[Baal]

BTW, IRL the SAW is very effective in CQB. I wouldn't use a pistol if I had a SAW.

[Dunehunter]

That's true, I've repeatedly put the smackdown on hostiles charging me up close. Feels really black hawk down-ish

[AnRK]

The case seems to be pretty strong for DMs having them. I don't see the "that's not their job" kinda argument, just cause you have better equipped people in your squad for the job doesn't mean that you don't need to defend yourself at points where your DMR is kinda redundant.

Although it seems like some of the DMRs are alot more sucky in CQB then they should be, obviously they aren't the best tools for the job, but as far as I'm aware they aren't THAT far removed from the equivalent assault rifles. Only exception to this is the M14, but that was a main service rifle for a while, uses 7.62 but I can't see why it should be that uncontrollable up close myself.

[AOD_Morph]

The pistol would eliminate the lack of CQB ineffectiveness. Almost eliminating any real need for CQ protection from the squad. Giving people even less motivation to stick with and support the squad.
I support the lack of pistol for gameplay reasons regardless of whether they get them IRL. PR makes realism sacrifices for gameplay all the time. I dont see why this is any different. If you are a marksman, stick with your squad and give them long range support while they handle the guys up close. Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[viper759]

Searched Keywords: sidearm, marksman, automatic, rifleman

IRL the Marksman and SAW Gunner carry a pistol along with their primary weapon. The DM and AR should get a Sidearm on their 9th Slot. If this were implimented it would add more realism to the game and would help two kits that lack in CQB. Due to the Marksman being a long range weapon and movement accuracy of the SAW.

the SAW typically doesnt, but in real life SAWs are deadly weapons in comparison to what they are in PR.

DMs typically carry pistols.


also since the WW2 or so , US troops have had the option to buy their own pistol and carry it into combat. if i went into a combat zone, id buy my own pistol if i wasnt issued one.