CQB/Urban Sniper

[mrnothing]

Snipers in Afghanistan Receive New Weapon

Do you first of all understand the different between a squad marksmen, and a sniper ? find out that first and then maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Again, for like i don't know how many times, even though the marksmen does have a rifle that can take out target's that a M4 carbine can't do, they still have to maintain there role as a squad member. Your going to be running to more then one spot, and the SL is probably not gonna give you your happy hour to take out target's you see. Why not let the sniper do that when he's in a position where he won't be revealed, but can still take it out. Who knows, maybe way before the squad realizes there was an enemy there.

[daranz]

Snipers in Afghanistan Receive New Weapon

Do you first of all understand the different between a squad marksmen, and a sniper ? find out that first and then maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Again, for like i don't know how many times, even though the marksmen does have a rifle that can take out target's that a M4 carbine can't do, they still have to maintain there role as a squad member. Your going to be running to more then one spot, and the SL is probably not gonna give you your happy hour to take out target's you see. Why not let the sniper do that when he's in a position where he won't be revealed, but can still take it out. Who knows, maybe way before the squad realizes there was an enemy there.

Ugh. You keep saying that WE don't understand the difference between a sniper and a DM, and then you tells us you want what is a sniper mostly by name and who he's attached to, and a DM by the way he engages targets. Really, try to read what people are saying instead of trying to hammer the same information into the thread over and over, ignoring the fact that most people are already aware of the differences.

[Bringerof_D]

Your correct. The marksmen rifle is a bit of an extent. But marksmen rifle might not have the effective range as a sniper rifle does. In my POV, a soldier with a marksmen kit would still be in a squad, but giving longer range then the ordinary assault rifle, but still maintain the role as a squad member. With a Sniper, they would be positioned in a area or building where they could give information to the CO or SL, without blowing there cover or position. Sometimes, a marksmen would be good as a spotter for the sniper, because marksmen could give co-ordinates or directions to a target, but the sniper would have the capability to take down the target.


Also to point one more thing out, the sniper in a CQB area could be great as a counter sniper. Unlike a marksmen who would stay in his squad, a counter sniper could help with taking out other enemy sniper's who pose a threat to the squad and there objective. Again, with the role of a marksmen kicking in, the marksmen could give co-ordinates to the enemy sniper while in a squad, but the counter sniper would either take it, or inform other squads to attack that area or avoid or call in the CO to make a arti strike or air to ground strike.

thats pretty much exactly what the marksman is for....on another note find me one situation in an urban area, where you would need the distance of a 50 cal sniper rifle to hit a guy.

2nd note, a "marksman" rifle, IS a sniper rifle, the difference between calibers, does not determine whether a rifle is a sniper rifle or not.

3rd note, a Marksmen and Sniper are are different. Both jobs are to engage targets at long distance, while the marksmen's job is more used in terms of support, where as a sniper is more oriented towards gathering intel and taking out valueble members of the enemy such as officers. A Marksman will use in most cases a 7.62 or other similarly sized rounds. a Sniper Uses 7.62 or similar rounds, BUT if the job requires it they will be allowed 50 cal rounds.

4th note, my 3rd note is one of the reasons why the marksman and sniper class exist in game, it is to simulate that there can be mroe snipers, but only snipers with very spicific and important jobs get a 50 cal. i'm not sure if thats why the devs did it but to me thats what that represents.

5th note, a CQB sniper is a paradox, Close Quarters Battle means within a tight area, sniping from building to building or from one building to the other end of the road is not CQB. Refer to 2nd and 3rd note, in which case your suggestion would be for a marksman class which allready exists.

[Solid Knight]

Snipers can be used as area denial sentries and not just for "intel". You can have a single sniper control an entire street. It helps to have a semi-auto sniper rifle in this case. And given how a lot of the next generation sniper rifles are semi-automatic it appears that real world snipers agree. The premises being that they have to shoot targets in an ubran environment where there happens to be a lot of targets to shoot. His request for a more appropriate weapon isn't out of line and it shouldn't just be dismissed as "that's what the marksmen is for". No, that isn't what the marksmen is for nor is the marksmen rifle appropriate for long distance shots at multiple targets because it lacks the accuracy and the zoom to do that. It's a medium range weapon. They may have similar functions but they are different roles.

And from the various responses I see on this forum it appears that people really just hate snipers in PR anyway. Nearly every suggestion is to make the kit less desirable, harder to use, less functional, et cetera. When somebody makes a suggestion for improvement to enhance their abilities or role people seem resistant to accept.

The notion of a CQB sniper isn't as absurd as it sounds. In modern battle fields snipers also have to operate in urban areas which pretty much defines CQB. You may be thinking of CQB as in the actual engagement range itself but in this case he is describing the type of battlefield. You have to be prepared for close quarters battle in an urban environment even if your intent is to shoot at long ranges hence why you will sometimes see snipers in Iraq with an M4 slung on their back. You will also note that they don't bother with ghillie suits in an urban environment.

[mrnothing]

Ugh. You keep saying that WE don't understand the difference between a sniper and a DM, and then you tells us you want what is a sniper mostly by name and who he's attached to, and a DM by the way he engages targets. Really, try to read what people are saying instead of trying to hammer the same information into the thread over and over, ignoring the fact that most people are already aware of the differences.

Ugh your correct. I do read what people say, and i do appreciate what they say. But what im trying to say, is being looked in the wrong way by others. All i really am trying to say, is to give the Sniper in a CLOSED IN URBAN MAP equipment that is more suitable to those conditions. People are coming up with oh this DM oh that marksmen and so on. If so, why not just take the damn sniper kit out ? why not just keep the marksmen and forget that there's something called a sniper. But, sniper's have something that other kits don't have - and that's being able to stay covert and being able to engage targets or feed intel without being noticed by the enemies eyes. On the other hand, im not saying DM"s should be abolished from the game either, because again they have a key feature, which is being able to take down target's that a riflemen in a squad can't do. Same thing goes with a medic, or a LMG, or grenadier, or anti tank and so on. They all have something special that another class can't do. So don't get me wrong, the sniper is a sniper, but what im saying is to help a sniper to become more suitable in urbanized area's - that's all.

And sorry if CQB is the wrong word, but im sure the word "urban" would fit in correctly, because there are such thing's as urban snipers. And about the 50 cal sniper, there usually only used as ANTI MATERIAL sniper. Not on humans unless the range is too far for the 7.62. But most of the time, the 7.62 is used if its on a human.

[mrnothing]

Snipers can be used as area denial sentries and not just for "intel". You can have a single sniper control an entire street. It helps to have a semi-auto sniper rifle in this case. And given how a lot of the next generation sniper rifles are semi-automatic it appears that real world snipers agree. The premises being that they have to shoot targets in an ubran environment where there happens to be a lot of targets to shoot. His request for a more appropriate weapon isn't out of line and it shouldn't just be dismissed as "that's what the marksmen is for". No, that isn't what the marksmen is for nor is the marksmen rifle appropriate for long distance shots at multiple targets because it lacks the accuracy and the zoom to do that. It's a medium range weapon. They may have similar functions but they are different roles.

And from the various responses I see on this forum it appears that people really just hate snipers in PR anyway. Nearly every suggestion is to make the kit less desirable, harder to use, less functional, et cetera. When somebody makes a suggestion for improvement to enhance their abilities or role people seem resistant to accept.

The notion of a CQB sniper isn't as absurd as it sounds. In modern battle fields snipers also have to operate in urban areas which pretty much defines CQB. You may be thinking of CQB as in the actual engagement range itself but in this case he is describing the type of battlefield. You have to be prepared for close quarters battle in an urban environment even if you're intent is to shoot at long ranges. Hence why you will sometimes see snipers in Iraq with an M4 slung on their back. You will also note that they don't bother with ghille suits in an urban environment.

THANK YOU. so much kudos to you Someone who knows what im trying to say or where im trying to get to.

[Tirak]

A Sniper is to provide long range recon operations and to eliminate priority targets. He is often sent out independant of other units and uses a highly specialized rifle for top accuracy.
A Marksman is generally a member of a unit who shows extreme proficiency at long range and may or may not be issued a specialized weapon. His role is to provide fast and accurate fire over medium ranges and to cover the infantry unit he is assigned to.

Stop. End. That is it.

Your Urban Sniper idea is really just using the Sniper Mentality with a marksman kit. There is no need to introduce another kit that would only be redundant.

[Bringerof_D]

Snipers can be used as area denial sentries and not just for "intel". You can have a single sniper control an entire street. It helps to have a semi-auto sniper rifle in this case. And given how a lot of the next generation sniper rifles are semi-automatic it appears that real world snipers agree. The premises being that they have to shoot targets in an ubran environment where there happens to be a lot of targets to shoot. His request for a more appropriate weapon isn't out of line and it shouldn't just be dismissed as "that's what the marksmen is for". No, that isn't what the marksmen is for nor is the marksmen rifle appropriate for long distance shots at multiple targets because it lacks the accuracy and the zoom to do that. It's a medium range weapon. They may have similar functions but they are different roles.

And from the various responses I see on this forum it appears that people really just hate snipers in PR anyway. Nearly every suggestion is to make the kit less desirable, harder to use, less functional, et cetera. When somebody makes a suggestion for improvement to enhance their abilities or role people seem resistant to accept.

The notion of a CQB sniper isn't as absurd as it sounds. In modern battle fields snipers also have to operate in urban areas which pretty much defines CQB. You may be thinking of CQB as in the actually battle itself but in this case he is describing the type of battlefield. You have to be prepared for close quarters battle in an urban environment even if you're intent is to shoot at long ranges. Hence why you will sometimes see snipers in Iraq with an M4 slung on their back. You will also note that they don't bother with ghille suits in an urban environment.

i wouldnt mind giving the Snipers a new rifle with Semi auto, i'm just saying it shouldnt be a new kit, nor should it ever be refered to as CQB sniper. it makes me shiver everytime i read it or type it. again however at the point where a sniper is looking down a road to deny the enemies the ability to cross said road in an urban environment, he would be using a a smaller caliber rifle not a 50.

@mrnothing: I understand completely what the suggestion is for and what you want AND i agree with what you want, but you simply arnt asking for the right things. from what i've read what would solve your request would be as simple as giving the marksman a scope with more magnification. a weapon can take any scope as along as the scope has the right mounting brackets so thats not un realistic. that or give the marksman a variable scope. sight in time wouldnt be an issue since it takes a while to adjust it anyways

what was unrealistic about your request would be a sniper being issued a 50 cal to hit a guy just across the street.

[viper759]

i didnt plan to have to post this heh.

real life "CQB sniper"
YouTube - Battle on Haifa Street, Baghdad, Iraq


notice the rifle hes using, now notice the rifles other guys are using and then look at where they are.

[Bringerof_D]

i didnt plan to have to post this heh.

real life "CQB sniper"
YouTube - Battle on Haifa Street, Baghdad, Iraq


notice the rifle hes using, now notice the rifles other guys are using and then look at where they are.

first things first, regardless of what his role is and what weapon he's using he's still not a CQB sniper, unless hes in the same room or same alley way with the guy he's shooting, it's not CQB.

2nd, that is not a snipers job, he would only have been helping because he's in the area and if he didnt help he'd be bored or his life at risk.

[Solid Knight]

You don't have to introduce another kit selection. You just change the kit based on the map. This has even been done in BF2-SF where on certain maps like Iron Gator, where you won't get grenade launchers or grappling hooks. They changed the actual kit file in the init.con.

The idea of altering a few kits to complement the type of battlefield isn't only a good idea but incredibly realistic at the same time.

By the way, snipers are put on overwatch and not just to take out high priority targets or recon. This essentially means they sit somewhere, feed intel and, OMGWTFBBQ engage the enemy. And since there really aren't "priority targets" in BF2 you can't simulate that aspect. I mean, is there really somebody on the battlefield that if you shot them would seriously hinder their ability to coordinate and function? No, because it's not a real military structure and people can rise from the dead. Really, the only role the sniper can perform in BF2 is overwatch... recon, maybe... sort of... but overwatch is what they really do in the game. The sniper is a force multiplier. You put him somewhere and use him to halt or hinder the enemy while the main body of your force engages else where.

[mrnothing]

i wouldnt mind giving the Snipers a new rifle with Semi auto, i'm just saying it shouldnt be a new kit, nor should it ever be refered to as CQB sniper. it makes me shiver everytime i read it or type it. again however at the point where a sniper is looking down a road to deny the enemies the ability to cross said road in an urban environment, he would be using a a smaller caliber rifle not a 50.

@mrnothing: I understand completely what the suggestion is for and what you want AND i agree with what you want, but you simply arnt asking for the right things. from what i've read what would solve your request would be as simple as giving the marksman a scope with more magnification. a weapon can take any scope as along as the scope has the right mounting brackets so thats not un realistic. that or give the marksman a variable scope. sight in time wouldnt be an issue since it takes a while to adjust it anyways

what was unrealistic about your request would be a sniper being issued a 50 cal to hit a guy just across the street.

oh no. don't get me wrong again ! I didn't exactly mean give them a new kit. Keep the same equipment the sniper would have all the time, when you play on a urban map (can't name them all exactly), there weapons and outfit would change to suit the conditions better.

and yes your correct, you could just give the sniper a M14 like how the DM does. But looking at today's military, a lot armies are adopting to a semi automatic sniper. There's gotta be something that makes it different from the M14. If there wasn't, why not just same some money and adopt a old, but still reliable weapon ?

I guess in a nut shell what im saying is it separates squad marksmen from a sniper.

and no lol, i never requested to add a 50 cal. I find it un realistic too because its not necessary to use a powerful round on soft target's within a small range if necessary. again, the 50 cal sniper is a anti material weapon used to stop vehicles or equipment.

[Bringerof_D]

oh no. don't get me wrong again ! I didn't exactly mean give them a new kit. Keep the same equipment the sniper would have all the time, when you play on a urban map (can't name them all exactly), there weapons and outfit would change to suit the conditions better.

and yes your correct, you could just give the sniper a M14 like how the DM does. But looking at today's military, a lot armies are adopting to a semi automatic sniper. There's gotta be something that makes it different from the M14. If there wasn't, why not just same some money and adopt a old, but still reliable weapon ?

I guess in a nut shell what im saying is it separates squad marksmen from a sniper.

and no lol, i never requested to add a 50 cal. I find it un realistic too because its not necessary to use a powerful round on soft target's within a small range if necessary. again, the 50 cal sniper is a anti material weapon used to stop vehicles or equipment.

ok now you got me wrong, when i said give them a semi automatic rifle i mean give them a semiauto 50 cal.

AND of course still it would be good if they gave marksmen more magnification not like a 10 or 16x like maybe an 8 or 9x sxope with smaller crossheirs

[pclipse_teh_owner]

Your correct. The marksmen rifle is a bit of an extent. But marksmen rifle might not have the effective range as a sniper rifle does. In my POV, a soldier with a marksmen kit would still be in a squad, but giving longer range then the ordinary assault rifle, but still maintain the role as a squad member. With a Sniper, they would be positioned in a area or building where they could give information to the CO or SL, without blowing there cover or position. Sometimes, a marksmen would be good as a spotter for the sniper, because marksmen could give co-ordinates or directions to a target, but the sniper would have the capability to take down the target.


Also to point one more thing out, the sniper in a CQB area could be great as a counter sniper. Unlike a marksmen who would stay in his squad, a counter sniper could help with taking out other enemy sniper's who pose a threat to the squad and there objective. Again, with the role of a marksmen kicking in, the marksmen could give co-ordinates to the enemy sniper while in a squad, but the counter sniper would either take it, or inform other squads to attack that area or avoid or call in the CO to make a arti strike or air to ground strike.

In urban battle you don't shoot sniper distance anyhow!

[mrnothing]

ok now you got me wrong, when i said give them a semi automatic rifle i mean give them a semiauto 50 cal.

Ok. It's not that it can't be used in a tight closed area's, it's just not necessary to use such a powerful round, just to take out the human body. Now unless your talking about taking out vehicles, that's a whole new story. But already, there are anti-tank materials to deal with that situation. And also, a 50 cal won't literally blow up the vehicle with one shot (but depends where you shoot (engine, or use a explosive round)), it will most likely stop a vehicle from operating or moving basically.

[mrnothing]

In urban battle you don't shoot sniper distance anyhow!

you never know unless your a sniper or former sniper yourself .....
I'm sniper's have had to deal with shooting target's from a long range to a short range.

[Solid Knight]

you never know unless your a sniper or former sniper yourself .....
I'm sniper's have had to deal with shooting target's from a long range to a short range.

He obviously doesn't realize that city's have streets and tall buildings...

[Tirak]

You can if you so choose, get a marksman kit and act like a sniper, it's about mentality, not kit. You do not have to confine yourself the the role the kit may indicate, if you want to go off playing Urban Sniper with a Marksman kit, great for you, take up the role and use the weapon for it, but changing the Sniper kit to fit your idea of what it should be on some maps is not the answer.

[Solid Knight]

You can if you so choose, get a marksman kit and act like a sniper, it's about mentality, not kit. You do not have to confine yourself the the role the kit may indicate, if you want to go off playing Urban Sniper with a Marksman kit, great for you, take up the role and use the weapon for it, but changing the Sniper kit to fit your idea of what it should be on some maps is not the answer.

Project REALITY. REALITY is they change their gear depending upon the scenario. When was the last time you saw a sniper in a ghillie in Iraq? And there is a strong preference for semi-autos in urban environments.

[Tirak]

Ramiel and Muttrah, you want to duplicate a kit for two maps? You want to remodel the kit geo, model the weapon and get new animations for two fething maps?