Ballistics or Tracers?

[DeltaFart]

Sweet, can I help test this one please?

[zangoo]

this is going to need alot of testing if it is going to be added to project reality without totaly destorying gameplay. So after i get a basic biuld done i think i will be able to use crazyasian's server.

[cyberzomby]

so what is tof than?

[Yasin22]

Why not just have both of them Ballistcs and Tracers

[zangoo]

tog is time of flight, So i need a real life ballistics formula that can calculate the real life tof using the ballistics coefficent and velocity.

ballistics and tracers are not possible for reasons listed in the first post.

[Rico11b]

tog is time of flight, So i need a real life ballistics formula that can calculate the real life tof using the ballistics coefficent and velocity.

ballistics and tracers are not possible for reasons listed in the first post.

Could this help you any?

Time of flight with air resistance

or

http://books.google.com/books?id=yESNUK ... #PPA586,M1

scroll up to page 586


R

[Rico11b]

The scale of a meter ingame just CAN'T be off. The engine defines it as an meter, so it is ..

Everything in else in this game should be build around the fact that this measurment ingame results one meter ..

You can not "scale" a computer game to real life, it is just impossible. So you define the values you need ingame and then scale the ingame-objects so they match each other

So no, EA had not to do anything to make the meter match, they just said "this is 1 meter" and the meter was perfectly right. It is not scaled, it was defined - and resulting of that it can not be off.

All other things build on this definition ( "Stuff like tanks, truck, buildings" and player models ) can be off, but that has nothing to do with the scale of the meter, just the scale of the models.

Just like I said, you can call the scale what ever you prefer. You can call it a meter, a yard, a foot or even inches. It makes no difference what scale you want to call it. I think you are saying that the game makers "defined" the "unit of measure" to be in meters. Not the scale. Anyway, I'm fine with using meters. That's was never my point!

The only programs on a computer I can think of that can "scale" something correctly would be something like a CAD program. (Computer Aided Design) Which also happens to cost thousands more than a stupid online PC game.

That's what I've been saying, is that you can't "scale" a game to real life. If the game is not "scaled" 1:1 with RL, then that means you can't just copy and past Real World bullet velocities into it and expect the same results.

First you have to determine what the scale of the game ACTUALLY IS! And it has to be exact, no guessing. AND then scale the real world bullet velocities to match that new determined scale. See?

What if the scale is not 1:1 but something like 1:1.15 or maybe the other way around 1.15:1? Then wouldn't it mean that if you used the real world bullet velocity for the M16a2 (appx 3015 fps) that it would then be 0.15 times greater in game than it should be? 0.15 times greater would be about 452 fps faster than it should be in game? Or would it be 452 fps slower in game than it should be? Please, let's stop debating "units of measure". We all agree that the unit of measure is in meters.

I'm thinking you guys are not understanding what I'm getting at. That's my fault, I apologize

[crazy11]

That is the reason we need to test out the ballistics a ton before they can be put into pr.

Its taking long enough to get the ballistics info for each gun.

[zangoo]

Ok I am to try to finish off this big debate.
Argument, m/sec value is off.
This cannot be true due to 3 reasons.
1) The ballistics zeroing are based off the bf2 m/sec value being correct if this wasn’t true, we wouldn’t be able to zero the guns, So with this little piece of info we can assume that the m/sec value in bf2 is correct to the m in bf2.
2) Wookie scouty has created a python program that gets a bullets position, if bf2’s m/sec value was off this wouldn’t work and all of his calculations for creating the zeroing marks on scopes wouldn’t work.
3) Another python program for bf2 uses a huge amount of math to get the projectile to hit the target, I cannot go into details because I have been asked not to but again if the m/sec value in bf2 was off this wouldn’t work.
Argument, scale is off.
First off, the scale is off yes, But the measurement in game is not. You can scale everything, gravity, Object size and a bunch of other things, But you cannot scale the meter ingame. If we decided that the measurement ingame was 1 bf2 unit = 1km, The models would have to scale to that, velocity would have to be scaled to that, everything would have to be scaled. But currently we are assuming that 1 bf2 unit = 1m, So all vehicles have to be made to this standard, It is up to the modeler of the object to get this correct not the game engine. You also used the argument, If all objects are off then the scale is off, Well sure the scale is off but the meter no. The size of the m1a2 is too small the size of people is off. But one thing we can be sure of 1 bf2 unit is = to 1m. It doesn’t matter how much you pay for the software they are all based off the same basic concept, The only difference in 3d modeling programs is that you can change what each unit means, But it is still the same to the software.

[Solid Knight]

I believe he is referencing the scale of everything in relation to each other. In other words, even though the game may have one meter absolutely defined this doesn't prevent you from putting a human model in who is 25 meters tall and has a stride of 15 meters. If everything isn't absolutely scaled based on one meter then the unit of measurement means nothing. Based solely off scale, is the unit of measurement that BF2 uses actually the distance it says it is?

[DeltaFart]

holy m,oses that just lost me

[Rico11b]

FYI, the soldiers in BF2 are 1.62/1.63 m tall, IIRC. Nedlands measured them in the editor.

Way to start things off with"Oh FFS" In caps too.

I suppose, us little people are bothering you!

Anywho,

This is the first I've heard of 1.62m or 1.63m. So Nedlands measured the player models in game and they were about 1.63 meters tall? Since I'm an American, I will convert that to feet and inches. Just because that makes more since to me than fractions of a meter.

1.63 meters converts to 5 feet 4 and 3/16 inches tall. WOW!!! I'm sorry, I just don't buy that. You are saying that the in game player models are WAY shorter than the "average" real world soldier.
I read somewhere on EA's BF2 forum that the player models are exactly 2 meters tall. That works out to be about 6 foot 6 and 3/4 inches. Which is WAY taller than the "average".

I picked that one statement out of all the junk you typed cause it's about the only thing that made any sense to MY simple mind.

I apologize that you have to deal with lesser humans like me, but such is life. It must be soooooo hard for you. Displaying your VAST knowledge and your ability to remember formulas impresses me not. Obviously your brain is FAR to advanced to understand the ramblings of a simple life form like me!

You have become such a "bright" boy, that I'll bet your father calls you SUN!

Oh, if you could only learn the ability to communicate with "regular" people

[Solid Knight]

oh FFS, you just cant even think of applying a scale factor to the unit of measurement or time in-game. It is just such a retarded thing to do it is almost unbelievable that anyone would want to try it. The point about defining it as 1m is that you absolutely need to define it in order to be able to use any kind of scale factor to get the scales of the models correct. If you dont understand, dont worry, just DO NOT continue saying that the (defined) scale used to measure distances if off.

Basically, the meter in game cannot, by definition, be scaled. Its like trying to measure the value of a defined physical constant, if your answer is always slightly out then its the other things you measured that are the problem. The defined unit is EXACTLY the value defined no matter what your calculations say, the error is in one of the other units which have been measured.

The scale of things 'in relation to each other' is irrelevant. If every last model in-game is measured to be twice the size it is IRL then all the models are wrong, not the meter.

FYI, the soldiers in BF2 are 1.62/1.63 m tall, IIRC. Nedlands measured them in the editor.

The awkward thing about calculating tof IRL is that the drag force contains the instantaneous velocity to a power of a function of that velocity. Hard as hell to integrate, I imagine. Since we are considering bullets, though, we have relatively high speeds and so v^2 could be an appropriate assumption to use, the results just need to be checked against the results from Mosqill's BC calculator if it can be used for tof calculations.

Way to completely miss the point. Consider: every model in game is 2000x bigger than they're supposed to be. You model ballistics according to the unit of measurement that is absolutely defined in game without taking the scale into account. What would the perceived results be in game? You could cry all day long about how the meter is absolute, how the unit of measurement couldn't possibly be wrong, that the models are wrong, but I guarantee in this scenario people would complain that bullets were slow and dropped short.


Now personally, I don't care. It's close enough and there are many other issues that are more important. I was merely explaining his position because nobody seemed to have a clue.

[zangoo]

Well, Here is some rather big news, I am kinda quiting pr and modding. So i might be on once and a while but over all i am leaving, So i am going to transfer all of my work to crazyasian as i have been working with him for a while and I belive that he will be able to finish this project. There isnt much work left to do to get the ballistics all done, I think he will be able to finish this project rather quickly.

So i wish you guys luck if you plan on modding, You can pm me questions but over all im not going to be ingame or on the fourms much.

[zangoo]

Jonny thank you for your post, If i am ever on and see you around I will definitely join you.

Now about the files, My friend crazyasian has uploaded the files to a passworded 4shared folder, This is just to allow the main people who worked on the ballistics to keep it from being spread to every other mod without their premission. I have also added some of my other little projects that i could find laying around on my pc, But most of my projets have been lost over time so...

Crazyasian is going to pm you jonny for the files, If you would like to share anything within them you can, But i didnt want to make the excel go public as that is your work and really the only the only thing worth protecting in this bunch of files.



Again Thank you everyone that has helped me in anyway during my time here.

Regards, Zangoo

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Why are you quiting, just not bothered about it right now?

[crazy11]

Ok I have the files for anyone that wants them just pm me and i will give them to you.

[Solid Knight]

By the way, are you guys doing this with ObjectTemplate.velocity or ObjectTemplate.acceleration + ObjectTemplate.maxSpeed?