Collaborator transportation

[badmojo420]

About half way through any insurgency game the insurgents are left with little to no transportation. Why? Because insurgents are disposable. They run out to a cache and usually die defending it. Great, that's their job. But the dirt bike, car, pickup, or (god forbid) technical they used as transportation is now just sitting by the cache, doing nobody any good. So the obvious answer would be to add more vehicles. But that would just postpone the inevitable.

My solution would be to add a minibus type vehicle. But here's the twist, only collaborators can drive it. And the coalition will get punished for killing the collaborator behind the wheel. This way, a collaborator can provide transportation to his team without fear of running into a humvee and dying around ever corner. Of course the insurgents in the bus wouldn't be able to shoot out windows or anything like that. And a coalition soldier could kill an insurgent riding in the bus, but would have to be careful not to hit the civie driving. To prevent civies from trying to drive over soldiers (using the bus as a weapon) maybe the bus could have a low damage tolerance and become disabled after small amounts of damage to it's engine area.

Here are a couple pics for reference...

[stozzcheese]

im liking that idea!

its hell when all the cars are gone and a cache spawns in the village in al basrah and no one can bloody get there!

[daranz]

To prevent civies from trying to drive over soldiers (using the bus as a weapon) maybe the bus could have a low damage tolerance and become disabled after small amounts of damage to it's engine area.

In other words, hit a bump, suddenly explode, play solitaire for 240 seconds while waiting for spawn.

[DeltaFart]

makes you keep to the roads more

[badmojo420]

I'm not sure how the cars are setup. But it seems like some vehicles can take bumps with no damage to the car itself, and others (like the civ cars) hit small bumps and blow up quickly. It would be nice if they could give this type of vehicle the ability to take the bumps but still be very weak towards gunfire. Also keep in mind that i said the damage tolerance should be low, so it would only take damaging the vehicle to say %40 before it stops working. So it would be more like hitting a couple objects at high speed will cause the vehicle to stop working. Not blow up. Like the stryker does, except much sooner. This will also give the civie a chance to use his wrench if he's not in a hot zone, And get the vehicle working again. But like i said, i dont know how the vehicles are setup, this might be impossible with the bf2 engine.

[Heskey]

I'm for it, but suggest that a collaborator caught driving WITH insurgent passengers in the vehicle should become a valid target. A bit like how civilians driving bomb cars are valid targets.

[hx.bjoffe]

The Toyota's been suggested before, but still a good idea.

[badmojo420]

The Toyota's been suggested before, but still a good idea.

The vehicle alone is pointless to add. Because it's the same as the civ cars as far as usability. My suggestion is mainly for still being a civ while driving a designated vehicle. They could do it with a normal car, but with a different vehicle it would be clearer who to shoot at and who not to.

[Rudd]

I quite like the OPs suggestion, but roadrage kills shall occur and thats not very fair

[GreedoNeverShot]

What's to stop collaborators from just going around and running people over?

-Enemy is on the road or w/e in front of you-
-You hop in the Collaborator vehicle and speed towards him-
-He can't shoot you to stop the car, and by the time he shoots the car to make it stop working, you run him over-
-You pull out your wrench, fix it from any shots he might have hit you with, and you repeat-

[RedAlertSF]

This is very nice idea because insurgents really need more transportation. Worst situation is in Ramiel as there are very few vehicles. However I think that everybody should be able to drive this, because otherwise people could just roadkill enemies with no fear of dying.

[martov]

you are a US soldier in an hostile city, you see a car crossing the road, it suddenly runs you over, quite realistic, specialy if there are few of these veicules

[Dude388]

I like this, but I need a small bit of clarification.

Lets say this car has 6 seats (for sake of argument). Now a full Insurgent squad hops in to drive to a location, all Collation players that see this car will think "This is a transport car, so it must be transporting normal insurgents plus the one civilian driver".

If this is known, one of two things could happen:

1. The soldiers that spotted the vehicle will follow it to wherever it goes and kill the inhabitants (minus the civilian). And if this leads to a cache, then the point of bringing reinforcements to defend a location is pointless. However, this is a player's error if they drive straight to the cache, but as you stated this is a transport vehicle, and the insurgents are defending cache 90% of the time, where else would they be driving?

2. The soldiers just blow up the car anyways because even though they will get several insurgents out of the battle for a bit, and not lose as much Intel because they also killed some regular insurgents, which gives Intel. In addition, players don't seem to care care if they shoot civilians as much since v.75 so this might not be as safe first thought.

My question in short is how severe will attacking these vehicles be? They would have to be almost double the current penalties to keep example #2 from happening. As for example #1, this depends on the driver being alert and making sure they aren't followed, but how DO soldiers stop this vehicle, if it is known that these vehicles are transporting enemies? Perhaps a spike strip to disable the vehicle?

Like I said really good idea, but need serious tweaking first.

[Psyko]

Good idea. i always thought that a couple of vehicle object should be made from scratch. i know from people who have been in those situations that Insurgents drive cruddy cars. but the ones ingame are just too cruddy. maybe a couple of saloon cars that arnt damaged. it felt really realistic driving the SUV through al basrah way back when. and in another instance lately. i would love to see more attention to new vehicles for insurgents.

[badmojo420]

I like this, but I need a small bit of clarification.

Lets say this car has 6 seats (for sake of argument). Now a full Insurgent squad hops in to drive to a location, all Collation players that see this car will think "This is a transport car, so it must be transporting normal insurgents plus the one civilian driver".

If this is known, one of two things could happen:

1. The soldiers that spotted the vehicle will follow it to wherever it goes and kill the inhabitants (minus the civilian). And if this leads to a cache, then the point of bringing reinforcements to defend a location is pointless. However, this is a player's error if they drive straight to the cache, but as you stated this is a transport vehicle, and the insurgents are defending cache 90% of the time, where else would they be driving?

2. The soldiers just blow up the car anyways because even though they will get several insurgents out of the battle for a bit, and not lose as much Intel because they also killed some regular insurgents, which gives Intel. In addition, players don't seem to care care if they shoot civilians as much since v.75 so this might not be as safe first thought.

My question in short is how severe will attacking these vehicles be? They would have to be almost double the current penalties to keep example #2 from happening. As for example #1, this depends on the driver being alert and making sure they aren't followed, but how DO soldiers stop this vehicle, if it is known that these vehicles are transporting enemies? Perhaps a spike strip to disable the vehicle?

Like I said really good idea, but need serious tweaking first.

I would keep the penalties the same for killing the civ driving as one walking. Sure people might start just opening up on the minibus, but after you kill a lone civie a couple times you'll start looking for insurgents. I feel people need to be watching more. Right now the norm is to just shoot everything that moves. Which is the total opposit of what an insurgency is supposed to be. And think of the crazyness that a bus load of collaborators could cause, sure, the whole squad has to wait 250s or whatever, but when they blow up that bus they'll set themselfs back huge as far as intel points go.

About stopping the bus, it all depends what they can do to a car. I dont' know much about the damage system so i can't really comment. Just that it would be nice if a small amount of gunfire to the engine would stop the vehicle from moving.

[badmojo420]

I don't want to stop the civies from running over soldiers. After all they are collaborators. It would be like throwing rocks. Not a great tactic, but sometimes it'll pay off. And it wouldn't be like your driving around Kashan Desert hitting soldier after soldier until their squad is gone. Most insurgency maps are close quarters, or at least have a lot of obstacles to hide behind, jump on, etc.

The whole idea behind this suggestion relies on the car being able to be disabled without blowing up. Because if we could do that, i don't see many civies risking 250 trying to run over a soldier. More likely they would see a soldier, and floor it to get out of the area and tell thier team. Putting a civie behind the wheel just prevents the soldiers from doing things like hitting the bus with a tank shell, LAT, C4, HAT, grenades, etc because that will certinly kill the driver. It's like that scene in generation kill where the truck is approaching and doesn't stop for the warning shots. They open up on the engine area and the truck crashes off to the side of the road and they proceed to kill every insurgent that jumps out of the smoking wreck. Or the scene where the US soldier freaks out when the car doesn't stop of the smoke, and accidentally lays down some fire onto the driver and kills him. Colbert yells at him "That was a kill shot!"

I would love to have some kind of setup where the collaborator becomes fair game if he is doing stuff like transporting insurgents, using the car as a weapon, spotting for mortars, etc. But i seriously doubt the bf2 engine could handle anything along those lines, so i haven't even considered it.

[Dude388]

I would love to have some kind of setup where the collaborator becomes fair game if he is doing stuff like transporting insurgents, using the car as a weapon, spotting for mortars, etc. But i seriously doubt the bf2 engine could handle anything along those lines, so i haven't even considered it.

Uhhh...the collaborator IS fair game if he is driving.

[daranz]

As long as the disabling system currently in game could be adapted for this, it could work. The car would have to be effectively disabled (prevented from moving at all), while still retaining high HP. You'd also need to make the vehicle windows open enough that you could punch a civvie from the outside, so that he couldn't just stay inside a disabled vehicle all day.

Provided that was in, most of the time the vehicle probably wouldn't give away caches' positions. People would tend to shoot to disable it, instead of following it. If you tried to follow it without shooting, you'd surely be noticed, and subsequently led to an ambush if the insurgent team is coordinated enough. Besides, sniper teams and such already have plenty of opportunity to observe enemies to determine cache locations, but you don't see it done all that often.

As to preventing people from using the car to run things over, you gotta look at it the other way as well. Right now, running over civvies carries no penalties, so they don't run in front of a speeding car just to incur penalties on the driver. Sitting in the middle of a road and shooting at the van as it approaches you SHOULD be a bad a idea, or people are going to do it on purpose.

[badmojo420]

Uhhh...the collaborator IS fair game if he is driving.

Right, but currently it doesn't matter if he is all alone driving a civ car or driving a technical full of insurgents, guns blazing.

[Gore]

As long as the disabling system currently in game could be adapted for this, it could work. The car would have to be effectively disabled (prevented from moving at all), while still retaining high HP. You'd also need to make the vehicle windows open enough that you could punch a civvie from the outside, so that he couldn't just stay inside a disabled vehicle all day.

Provided that was in, most of the time the vehicle probably wouldn't give away caches' positions. People would tend to shoot to disable it, instead of following it. If you tried to follow it without shooting, you'd surely be noticed, and subsequently led to an ambush if the insurgent team is coordinated enough. Besides, sniper teams and such already have plenty of opportunity to observe enemies to determine cache locations, but you don't see it done all that often.

As to preventing people from using the car to run things over, you gotta look at it the other way as well. Right now, running over civvies carries no penalties, so they don't run in front of a speeding car just to incur penalties on the driver. Sitting in the middle of a road and shooting at the van as it approaches you SHOULD be a bad a idea, or people are going to do it on purpose.

I agree.