Maybe the .8 "complainers" were right....

[random pants]

A lot of the changes in .85 are essentially correcting or "revamping", if you will, the significant gameplay changes that were a part of .8



The deviation system, which is IMO the most significant element of this games combat, is being COMPLETELY revamped for .85.



The LMG's are being totally overhauled with draw times and deviations, being brought back closer to their .7 counterparts as well.


Sniper rifle settle-times are going from the absurd 8 second between shot times to a more reasonable 4 seconds. Again, more like .7 and earlier.


Grenade blast radius is being increased...again back to a more .7-ish AOE.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Look at all the significant changes from .5 to .6x, and from .6x to .7x,
things like APC/squad leader spawn, getting ammo from rallies and the back of cars, deviation implementation, seat-switching delays, etc....


Sure, people complained about these changes (I didn't, I loved every single one of them), but the DEV's stuck with their changes as they should have.



Fast forward to today....


With .85 literally reversing a lot of significant .8 gameplay changes, (with slight tweaks), maybe the community should realize that the hordes of people complaining were right in what they were saying.

I don't think any of us think the DEV's were "pressured" into these changes, we know they're not tools like that. However, I believe they saw, like many of us have, that .8 is sketchy at best, that's why they're working hard on the super-kick-*** .85




My point?

Us ".8 bashers" should have more credibility...almost everything we have vehemently complained about is getting changed in some form or another...


maybe we were right after all...

[CareBear]

the fact that the whole point of new versions of PR is to test and try new things and then the next version is to tweak what was in the preivous build and maybe add a little more aswell
and the fact many of these were pretty much planned to be changed before the release to public of .8 aswell
pretty much all new builds are 'sketchy at best' in your view as not much is left unchanged between builds

basically just because you complained doesnt mean its going to be changed its just the natural progression of developing a mod

[GreedoNeverShot]

Prepare your flame shield... Its coming...

[AOD_Morph]

There's a difference between complaining and adding constructive criticism, OP.

[Psyko]

the fact that the whole point of new versions of PR is to test and try new things and then the next version is to tweak what was in the preivous build and maybe add a little more aswell
and the fact many of these were pretty much planned to be changed before the release to public of .8 aswell
pretty much all new builds are 'sketchy at best' in your view as not much is left unchanged between builds

basically just because you complained doesnt mean its going to be changed its just the natural progression of developing a mod

well it is called "Project" reality. what does that imply?

[random pants]

pfft, I AM the flame shield....

Complaining and constructive criticism are essentially the same, with the exception that the latter provides new suggestions and a less whiny tone... they both still give the same basic message (WE DONT LIKE THIS)

and I disagree with carebear, its not just the "natural progression", look how the game has evolved in previous versions, and how things that were removed are gone forever...



We're seeing a lot of things "coming back" in some forms, something that hasn't occurred yet in the progressive patches...

[PFunk]

Complaining and constructive criticism are essentially the same

They're not quite the same. Constructive criticism has the benefit of being genuine in its attempt to offer advice based on experience or the like in a way that should help better things. Complaining doesn't have to do that. It could just be as simple as "its gay that my gun won't let me no scope people." Doesn't really help.

Also people don't listen to whiners. Who cares if a whiner is right, the way he says it deprives him of most of his credibility, especially since there are more than enough tempered criticizers out there who don't sound like total nubs.

As for "rolling back" to what seems like previous incarnations isn't especially significant. They can't make hugely successful changing strides EVERY release without at some point not succeeding so much. But even when rolling back I'm sure they learn plenty so its not a failure.

[AgentJadeD]

I think what they've done with PR is great. But when PR first started. PR said accuracy was the key element to the game.

Does that exist now. It does if you wait for the timer. But by then your position may already compromised and the enemy already has a jump start on taking you out.

[Charity Case]

Maybe you should wait for new build to come out before you start tooting your horn. I'm guessing .85 will be much closer to .8 than to .75.

[[SyK]K22]

was this thread necessary? Really did you need to make a thread about this?

[Jaymz]

The deviation system, which is IMO the most significant element of this games combat, is being COMPLETELY revamped for .85.

Correct

The LMG's are being totally overhauled with draw times and deviations, being brought back closer to their .7 counterparts as well.

Not quite 0.7, but overhauled nonetheless.

Sniper rifle settle-times are going from the absurd 8 second between shot times to a more reasonable 4 seconds. Again, more like .7 and earlier.

Based on Military advice from the RL snipers and SF operators we have on the DEV/TESTING teams.

Grenade blast radius is being increased...again back to a more .7-ish AOE.

Won't be near as deadly as they were in 0.7, but a lot more effective than in 0.8.


We're constantly redefining elements of the core gameplay in PR to try and get it into a position where we feel it best represents the teamwork involved in modern day combat. It's all to do with the complexities of finding a balance between realism and gameplay, then cramming it into the BF2 engine.

Sometimes doing this means making some obvious mistakes that are present in 0.809.

[random pants]

Correct



Sometimes doing this means making some obvious mistakes that are present in 0.809.

Wow...the first person in the thread to at least partially agree with me is a DEV.


Also, I'm not really saying that you're going BACK to .7, what I'm saying is that the changes you are making, while still new and innovative, are leaning towards the dynamics of previous versions, something that hasn't happened before.




C'mon guys, I know you all hate me.... but give me SOME credit....


geez...

[Eddiereyes909]

It is not what you say random pants, but the way you say it. For example, this thread was a very good post, IMO, where as allot of the other ".8 complaint" threads and posts were bashing the DEVs.

I look forward to the changes made in .8,

[random pants]

Yea, well I was only bashing because the DEVs set the standards so damn high for every release...


I blame the DEVs!

[Drav]

Dont forget that most of the developers play the game as well, and in the large majority of cases know what needs fixing just as well as all the other players. I dont think Rhino\Fuzz\Jaymz etc lost much sleep because random pants didnt like the deviation, I think they altered it because they wanted to make the game better.....

[random pants]

Dont forget that most of the developers play the game as well, and in the large majority of cases know what needs fixing just as well as all the other players. I dont think Rhino\Fuzz\Jaymz etc lost much sleep because random pants didnt like the deviation, I think they altered it because they wanted to make the game better.....

yea, cuz I was the only one complaining about deviation...



of course they altered it for their own reasons, but when the community cries bloody murder about it simultaneously....

[fuzzhead]

Maybe you should wait for new build to come out before you start tooting your horn. I'm guessing .85 will be much closer to .8 than to .75.

You would be correct in that assertion cc

random pants, where are you getting your facts? yes the deviation is being overhauled... like it was in v0.7, like it was in v0.6, in v0.5, v0.4, v0.3, etc..... nothing new here... each release of PR is like a new game, but also a refinement from past versions... as for the other stuff, just wait till v0.85 comes out before making these sweeping statements

[AgentJadeD]

Maybe you should wait for new build to come out before you start tooting your horn. I'm guessing .85 will be much closer to .8 than to .75.

I've been playing PR since the release of v0.25, was a beta test for v0.5 and v0.6

[CodeRedFox]

Maybe the .8 "complainers" were right...but those post were never taken into account. In fact they normally are ignored out right, only constructive comments (which are not considered complainers) were put into the "Things that need to be looked into and/or changed" pile.

Luckily for us there are more constructive comments on and off the forums that where able to get our attention. And its really the only way to get things changed. The ones that post one two lines response that are negative and unhelpfully are nothing more that a increase in post counts for that person.

Thank you to all those that took the time to explain why you might not have liked something, and a few of you have become R-Con's because you took the time to really help. You all really do help the Mod that were all addicted to

[IAJTHOMAS]

Few people would dispute that 0.8 isn't perfect and could do with refinement, that's obvious. 1.0 won't be perfect, nothing in life is, so to expect 0.8 to be so is overly optimistic to say the least. Constant bitching with no suggestions as to how to improve matters isn't really helpful, whether you agree with the criticism or not.

Secondly, I've seen alot of PR releases, and they seem to come in a 2 stage cycle. The first stage is a big release with many new changes, the second a releases with fewer fundamental gameplay changes and tweaking of the new features put in to the mod in the previous release. Often when things are first put in to PR they don't work out quite as envisaged and they are toned down in previous releases. I really don't see your point here, for me PR is just following its natural development cycle.