Flag Capture by Building Bunkers

[ZaZZo]

It is an interesting idea, but how about not requiring a bunker to be built in a flag capture radius. For example the AAS game mode would work normally as it does now when soldiers capture a control point. But when your team builds a bunker in the flag capture radius after they have taken the control point the opposing team cannot take the flag until that bunker is destroyed.

This way there won't be a big deal about having spawn points at every flag, because bunkers won't have to be built at every flag. But if the team wants to build one and make it harder for the enemy to advance then they can.

Just my $.02

I really like the sounds of that

Much simpler and more realistic portray of controlling areas imo.

[gclark03]

I think whole flag capture is just symbolic way of showing how teams are losing/gaining ground areas during the war. Flags are only showing what areas are under team 1 control and what areas are under team 2 control.

Why would you like to force teams destroy/build some structure as a symbol of gaining/losing piece of land in battle ? I think its far more realistic that the team who has more troops in the area, has/is going to have that piece of land marked under it's control with a flag-symbol.

The bunkers will help slow the game down and prevent the constant blitzkrieg tactics that have existed since vBF2, and also make logistics a lot more important for attacking squads.

I also like dislexiclawyer's idea - any variation of the OP would be great for gameplay, as well as a little realism.

[Redamare]

BUNKERS WITHIN THE CAP AREA DEFENSIVE BUNKERS SHOULD SWITCH BETWEEN FLAGS IF FLAG IS CAPPED THE BUNKER CAN BE USED BY TEAM IN CONTROL OF THAT FLAG

[gclark03]

What's the point of having the bunkers at all, and what separates that from Vanilla flag spawns?

[Delta_5-1_PL]

I don't think it's a good idea, since (especially on urban maps) it won't be too realistic. I have never heard about armies building bunkers etc. every 400 m (or w/e the distance between control points is).

Although dislexiclawyer's idea, about bunkers protecting the flag from being capped by enemy sounds good to me.

[Deadfast]

BUNKERS WITHIN THE CAP AREA DEFENSIVE BUNKERS SHOULD SWITCH BETWEEN FLAGS IF FLAG IS CAPPED THE BUNKER CAN BE USED BY TEAM IN CONTROL OF THAT FLAG

Caps lock

[fubar++]

The thread tittle has become a bit misleading. I don't think the object should be a bunker like the bunkers in PR are at the moment. Whatever it is and would be called (I have called it here as "Forward Command Post") would be a symbol for something between Commander (Command Post) and squads (which in BF2 spawn system are almost like platoons), something like Company Level Command Post - the names really doesn't matter.

If you ever have been with conventional army you would notice how slow and prepared they make maneuvers. All the logistics have to know where to go and for troops there is a lot of waiting time in every step of major moves. Everything is controlled by strict hierarchy and to get things approved takes time. What you see in game is just a tip of the iceberg.

The idea to slow capture process with this "FCP" or "CLCP" or whatever, is really meant to get rid off the rapid back and forth flowing flag capture process we have at the moment. How is that realistic that you need three guys in a "flag" order to "capture" it? They can be just standing and hiding anywhere that area and actually do nothing. If you have a static object which you have to build and even more important, defend, you really need to gain control on that area and get your logistics organized, and protect your "Company commander", communication systems, supplies, everything.

[Blakeman]

I still like the idea, but think it should be as an improvement to C&C mode instead of incorporated into AAS mode. It would be represented better on larger maps in that mode than smaller urban maps where there is often little space for bunker/FOBs.

I have hope that C&C mode with its more open-ended approach can be made into something that folks like as much as AAS and Insurgency modes. Right now I see servers empty way too quickly for folks to even try it...

[Japub]

C&C isn't played on servers that often, it's mostly AAS or insurgency. It's nice if this idea would be seen more often as and not just the few times you play C&C.

The cool things with this is that you can get some real intense battles, that go on for a while, around each flag. Flanking and manoeuvring will be more important. Having one group to defend/attack the FCP while another one is patrolling to find the enemy spawn.

This could also make teamwork more important. Lone wolfing would be impossible. Today two or three vanilla noobs could be running about on their own and happen to end up at the same CP. Since they're more than 2 they can capture the flag without really realising it. With this idea, if you don't co-operate to build a bunker they wont be able to cap the flag. They'll just stand there and get killed after a while. This enforces them to team up and build a bunker.

Earlier you could go lone wolfing, spawning at a FOB and just run to a flag and get at least something done. But this proposal really kills the meaning of even that, you wont be able to do anything at all except killing. As a lone wolf nowadays you can actually cap a flag as in my example above but with this idea you would need more people (to get it done fast at least).

[Blakeman]

C&C isn't played on servers that often, it's mostly AAS or insurgency. It's nice if this idea would be seen more often as and not just the few times you play C&C.

That is why I suggested it be added to C&C instead of messing with AAS. I feel that AAS is fine the way it is and would be against adding this to that, though I wouldn't mind seeing some of these ideas used to improve the C&C mode that hardly anyone uses.

C&C isn't used because it doesn't have a lot going for it besides it's free form style play, which confuses pubbers that have no leadership telling them not to just rape the enemies main and go out and build FOBs. When they have to build FOBS/Bunkers in key areas it turns into something more along the lines of what you want, without messing with the AAS mode.

[fubar++]

That is why I suggested it be added to C&C instead of messing with AAS. I feel that AAS is fine the way it is and would be against adding this to that, though I wouldn't mind seeing some of these ideas used to improve the C&C mode that hardly anyone uses.

C&C isn't used because it doesn't have a lot going for it besides it's free form style play, which confuses pubbers that have no leadership telling them not to just rape the enemies main and go out and build FOBs. When they have to build FOBS/Bunkers in key areas it turns into something more along the lines of what you want, without messing with the AAS mode.

This idea was designed to replace current flag capture system with AAS, not CnC, which I never had in my mind while sketching this one.

Okay if you want to fit it in CnC but the idea wasn't intended for that purpose.

[Blakeman]

This idea was designed to replace current flag capture system with AAS, not CnC, which I never had in my mind while sketching this one.

Okay if you want to fit it in CnC but the idea wasn't intended for that purpose.

I don't think you will get a lot of support from this idea if you intend it to enhance/replace the normal flag capture in AAS since many folks are completely fine with how it works currently. It is already a far cry from vanilla and with more maps having multiple flags during one push already I do not see this as a viable option.

As a mode of its own or like I suggested as an enhancement for C&C though it has promise.

[GreedoNeverShot]

This would make a great new game mode, if the maps chosen had more spaced out flags, and the idea was tweaked some more.

Yay

[gclark03]

This could easily be AAS v4, depending on what the DEVs want. I know they don't want flags, and this is the easiest progression from the vBF2 flag system I can think of.

[fubar++]

I don't think you will get a lot of support from this idea if you intend it to enhance/replace the normal flag capture in AAS since many folks are completely fine with how it works currently. It is already a far cry from vanilla and with more maps having multiple flags during one push already I do not see this as a viable option.

As a mode of its own or like I suggested as an enhancement for C&C though it has promise.

I understand your concern, but to me the present capping system doesn't make much sense compared to how real army units work.

[scandhi]

Why do i think of Company of heroes?!? ??:
This thread made me thinking like; a bunker put in the contested area is like the OPs in CoH, am i right?

[gclark03]

Absolutely.

[fubar++]

Wasn't thinking that in first place but actually they have a lot in common.

[Japub]

I don't think you will get a lot of support from this idea if you intend it to enhance/replace the normal flag capture in AAS since many folks are completely fine with how it works currently. It is already a far cry from vanilla and with more maps having multiple flags during one push already I do not see this as a viable option.

As a mode of its own or like I suggested as an enhancement for C&C though it has promise.

How is it a far cry from vanilla? The idea is that you can't spawn from the bunkers anyway.

Arrive at flag, build a bunker --> enables flag capture.

Arrive at flag, destroy bunker, build new one --> enables flag recapture

This would also increase the need of explosives (engineers and spec ops more important to INF squads). Or, possibly a separate explosives squad that stays behind the INF. Or an opportunity for spec ops/sneaky players to sneak in before the attack and take out the enemy bunker, softening their defences before the main INF go in. As it is now spec ops don't have an important, specific role anyway.

This idea makes flag capture a whole lot more interesting. But it needs some more work. Perhaps some flags should remain as it is now while other ones that holds a village or something important would need a bunker?

[fubar++]

This idea makes flag capture a whole lot more interesting. But it needs some more work. Perhaps some flags should remain as it is now while other ones that holds a village or something important would need a bunker?

It's still more or less just a sketch. It should be coded and tested on server first to point out possible flaws in it, and develop different kind of variations to find out which would suite best. I myself don't have much time nor coding knowledge at the moment to do so, but maybe at some point later.

But I think it shouldn't be a "bunker", something more like described on update at first post.