Automatic Rifleman, Deployed State...

[RCMoonPie]

My suggestion is simple and also for the sake of Realism...

The autos are most accurate when deployed and while in the prone firing position.....for obvious reasons.

They are currently unfireable in the deployed state from the standing or crouching firing positions.

This is almost to say that the weapon is a "smart" weapon and knows the position of it's user and auto-locks. ??:

I understand why the differentiation was made for the different modes and the reason why the modes(deployed/undeployed) hold two seperate places in the kit.

For reality's sake and also technically....the autos should be fireable, whether undeployed or deployed....exactly the same in all three positions.....with the exception being that the auto is most accurate while prone in the deployed state.

Since the marksmanship shooting positions fall in this order, Standing least accurate, Crouching is more accurate, and prone is the most accurate...It should be as follows:

Standing:
undeployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/very inaccurate
undeployed/sigthed.........less deviation/gained accuaracy/muzzle rise

deployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/very inaccurate
deployed/sigthed.........less deviation/gained accuaracy/muzzle rise

Crouched:
undeployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/very inaccurate
undeployed/sigthed.........*less deviation/better accuaracy/less muzzle rise

deployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/inaccurate
deployed/sigthed.........*less deviation/better accuaracy/less muzzle rise

Prone:
undeployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/very inaccurate
undeployed/sigthed.........less deviation/gained accuaracy/slight muzzle rise

deployed/not sigthed.....great deviation/inaccurate
deployed/sigthed.........no deviation/great accuaracy/no muzzle rise

*One could factually argue that firing from the crouched position is more accurate than standing as the off-hand elbow can be supported by the knee with great success. Also in game this could allow the symbolence of placing the bipod for support on a low wall, concrete barrier, sandbags, car hood, etc.

[Tannhauser]

I think that the deployed mode should allow to fire as Crouched to simulate firing from a window, roofwall, low-wall, barrier or sandbag wall.
I agree the recoil when undeployed should definitely be reduced ; it pulls you up so much that it's not even good at any possible ranges.

[Arnoldio]

Or they could remove the deployed mode and give prone a bit "warmup delay", 3 seconds lets say, simulating bipod deployment OR it would shoot awfully, and i mean, really shitty for those 3 secs so it wouldnt get exploited.

So it would be like this:

Standing:
Inaccurate, recoil

Crouched:
More accuracy, less recoil, but not mcuh

Proned:
Really accurate, small recoil

So, only 1 mode mixed.

[RCMoonPie]

I respectfully disagree.
I think the two weapon states definitely have a place in the game.
It just needs to be tweaked a bit, thats all.

[Fungwu]

I think having 2 modes of fire is a little much, These are light machineguns after all, they are supposed to be light and versatile. 2 modes of fire is just too cumbersome.

I think it would be better to have just a normal mode of fire and simply have the gun achieve good accuracy after an appropriately long time while standing or crouching.

I think the devs should give LMG gunner the benefit of the doubt and assume if they are stationary for say, 8 seconds while standing then they must be behind a wall or some other suitable support and give them give good accuracy.

While they are at it giving the LMGs an ACOG would be nice, also I think we need more of them. I think American squads have 1 out of 4 soldiers with m249s, in PR we have 1 out of 10, before casualties.

[Anderson29]

man i was about to start a new thread then searched and found this...and it was exactly what i was thinking. so here are my thoughts.
i think the main issue here is recoil. i agree with rc that there can be all type of situation where the LMG can be deployed. so my suggetion would be to have deployed work in all 3 stages and raise the settle time or delayed fire slightly in the deployed state. i think this will work because judging from the dev journal it looks like LMGs are getting a very needed overhaul.
i was wondering...is there a way to lock in a stance when entering in the deployed state. or lock movement when deployed. so in order to move you would first have to enter the undeployed state of the weapon then move. i know allot of people who just run around in the deployed state and just go insta prone when enemy is sited.
anyways if its not able to be done i do completely agree with rc but i think the settle time would have to be raised to keep it from being used improperly. like 8-10seconds like a sniper. being in deployed mode usually means your going to be stationary for a bit.
while being undeployed (from what ive seen in dev journal) is going to be allot better than it is now but the deployed state should be far better to encourage its use.
good post rc...i thought it to be under discussed and under viewed so i bring it back to life.

[[uBp]Irish]

I just want to be able to shoot from crouch, sited in, with relatively good accuracy.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... ition.html

new changes.

[Yasin22]

well thenn if a machine gun is going to fire up that high it should GPMG like the mg3 m240 and such and such like the pkm as well

[Solid Knight]

I think the two states is not needed. Why not just have the bipod always deployed? Or why not have an animation that unfolds the bipod when going prone (can't remember if this part is possible). Either way, it is impractical to have two different guns pretending to be the same gun. It's not that hard to have lots of deviation standing up and very little deviation laying down.

[nedlands1]

I think the two states is not needed. Why not just have the bipod always deployed? Or why not have an animation that unfolds the bipod when going prone (can't remember if this part is possible). Either way, it is impractical to have two different guns pretending to be the same gun. It's not that hard to have lots of deviation standing up and very little deviation laying down.

You can't have recoil dependent on stance, only if sighted in or not. Hence the two "states".

[OkitaMakoto]

You can't have recoil dependent on stance, only if sighted in or not. Hence the two "states".

Not to mention you cant base ANYTHING on the act of going to crouch. :\

If we could do that, then instaproning, AutoRifleman problems, and a few other problems wouldnt even exist. :\

[Solid Knight]

You're referring to visual recoil (which is extreme in your mod). I'm referring to deviation.

[OkitaMakoto]

You're referring to visual recoil (which is extreme in your mod). I'm referring to deviation.

I dont know who youre talking to cuz you didnt quote, but you cannot say "after going prone, have high deviation for X seconds" because thats not possible with BF2. If it were, we wouldnt have a lot of the workarounds for instaproning we have now :\

[Blakeman]

I think a lot of folks also base their ideas on the SAW instead of thinking of things like the PKM.

The SAW fires a 5.56x45mm round whereas the PKM fires the 7.62x54Rmm round. Granted in text this isn't a lot of difference, but in reality it is loads different in both recoil, muzzle climb and just overall weight.



From left to right: 7.62x54R, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x51, 5.56x45, 5.8x42, 6.8x43 Rem SPC, 6.5x38 Grendel, earlier versions of LSAT caseless and LSAT plastic-cased.

Notice the size differences in the case of the 7.62x54R and the 5.56x45. I carried a SAW, it is loads different in firing than a PKM, which I have also handled. The PKM is more in the line of a M240G machine gun, which fires the 7.62x51 round.

Other things that fire the 7.62x54R are the SVD and the Mosin Nagant rifles. Other things that fire the 5.56x45 are the M4/M16. Other things that fire the 7.62x51 are the M14 and G3.

Also note that the AK-47 fires the 7.62x39, whereas the AK-74 fires the 5.45x39, big difference there as well.