add SAW/grenadier/marksman(?)/(LAT?) to spawn menu

[Spec]

6 should be fine. I mean, if there can be only one per squad, and its only 4 infantry squads, the two other LMG's will just be unused, so what? (Unless someone exploit the system somehow, but 2 exploited LMG's are something I could live with, and admins can still take care of it)

[[uBp]Irish]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the way kit requests work in game now is there currently is a "pool" that each kit comes from. Example... 3 SAW kits in the SAW Weapon Pool. 3 People request saw kits, thus the pool is depleted. One person dies, and an enemy picks up the saw. The weapon is not returned to the Pool because it is still in the game world.

The addition of extra kits over the limit, such as Jaymz was saying it's doubled from 3 to 6 is made so there are backup weapons in the pool? So instead of having a depleted pool, that previous soldier that just lost his SAW to an enemy can now request another weapon, which would mean 2 SAW's are still in the pool?

I might be smoking something, but if that's the intention, than it makes sense. It's like having 3 pilots on Muttrah, so you have backup helicopters incase someone crashes, which wouldn't hurt the team, but the coding is still the same as before, thus limiting the amounts in game, as well as not being able for a squad to request the same kit again (if the kit is already in the squad)...

Probably should have worded this all better.

[Spec]

Nah, you're right, thats a point, too. Though thats only for the worst case, as hopefully the teams wont steal eachother's SAWs - wouldnt make much sense anyway, since both teams would have enough SAWs for everyone.

[gazzthompson]

That post is slightly incorrect.

I thought the consensus was that only the Auto Rifleman and Grenadier would be on the spawn menu.

Also, why shouldn't a squad always have a basic assortment of weapons? The way it is now, I almost never see auto riflemen or grenadiers in combat. If they aren't actually on the spawn menu, something needs to be done that ensures that most squads will deploy with those kits - maybe an improvement to the kits, or a tweak in the kit limiting system. Whatever it takes, really.

Another thing, somewhat off-topic: the Auto Rifleman kit really needs a scope in order to have any chance against all those Optics Riflemen they're designed to suppress. If some LMGs have scopes and some don't, it doesn't matter - give them all a scoped SAW with a different tracer color, as long as every LMG for every faction is scoped.

i agree 100%, but not to bothered on the scope.

the AT and DM was put down by me for discussion but rightfully was quickly shot down, so know more discussion on them two being on the spawn menu.


at the moment there are alot of times when im SL or a SM where i cannot get access to a SAW of grenadier. this is neither realistic or productive. the SAW - the main fire support of EVERY squad. the grenadier the mid range punch which needs SL markers to work effectively , both of these kits NEED ammo, ALOT (nades and 2 mags for SAW) making rifleman MORE important if anything other wise both kits are gunna become use less

[Jigsaw]

Gazz I believe that this has already been fixed, given that the spawn time on these kits has been reduced and the number of those kits available increased as well.

So SLs should be able to get both of these kits in their squads far easier.

I dont agree that these kits should either be requestable from spawn or from a rally point. These are important kits. To discourage meatgrinder rush gameplay I believe it is necessary to have these kits selectable only from APCs and crates.

At the moment the situation that we have is that squads are moving to an enemy position, dying, respawning with whatever kits, and doing the same damn thing over again. This is unrealistic and foolish and the changes the DEVs are making are directed towards removing this poor facet of gameplay.

This is especially because much of the time that a squad gets dropped off by a chopper they'll have a crate with them anyway, so it balances out.

As for the AR having a scope, I disagree on the principle that it is rare for them to be fitted with scopes in RL and therefore this should not be included in PR.
I understand that it is possible, and that it would be useful on occasion but think how long it takes to sight in and prep an AR atm. You have to get prone, switch to deployed mode, sight in and wait for the weapon to settle (currently 3seconds but this is being increased to 6 to prevent prone deployed mode spam). This whole process currently takes around 8-9seconds to be fully ready to fire but factor in the increased settle time and increased sight in time associated with scoped weapons and it will take 11-12seconds plus to be ready to fire accurately.

[gazzthompson]

As for the AR having a scope, I disagree on the principle that it is rare for them to be fitted with scopes in RL and therefore this should not be included in PR.

i got no proper figures but a quick google search and from memory i believe alot of SAW's are fitted with scopes IRL. hopefully some 1 with more expertise can comment

[Jigsaw]

I googled before I posted and found only 2 pics of scoped M249 SAWs in the 1st 5 pages of google images where the rest were unscoped.

So based on this complete and unarguable evidence ( ) I have come to the conclusion that it is not all that realistic. Plus the gameplay difficulties people would encounter would make the kit almost unplayable which is not what we want to achieve.

[gazzthompson]

dunno how random google images are (lulz at us basing our arguments on google images) but it seems most have scopes.

m249 afghanistan - Google Image Search

for me, 6 on first page have scopes.

m249 iraq - Google Image Search

8 have scopes.

[Rudd]

both of you need an MA

[gazzthompson]

yep lol

*blowns horn*

we need you MA's !!

[Jigsaw]

Lol, yeah all hail the brilliant source of irrefutable evidence that is google

Maybe we should try wikipedia next

My main source of concern again is gameplay difficulies, i've got no doubt it would be useful but also overpowering if you could set up your M249 and then scope in to see everything at rifle ranges which you could then own with complete ease because you've got almost no recoil whilst deployed.

Although I guess you'd be almost immobile then cos you have the tunnel vision of scoping that often occurs, and massive settle time so I guess it balances.

Lol ok ignore me im coming round to the idea a bit now

I call on an MA to verify whether it would be realistic...

[gazzthompson]

you should be able to "flag" topics/posts where the forum PM's all the MA's with something like:

MA's....

noobs are trying to discus military bases themes using google and or wikipedia is sources !! go sort them out.

[Jigsaw]

you should be able to "flag" topics/posts where the forum PM's all the MA's with something like:

Lol, would be nice. Could have a sort of MA rescue team to come swooping in to put us out of our misery.

Although I feel that they would be getting about 1000PMs a day

[ostupidman]

I have seen very few SAWs with actual magnified scopes. They seem to be almost exclusively fitted with aimpoints if any optics at all. At least in the US military. Couldn't say for any other countries.

[gazzthompson]

seems alot of what seems to be eclan

http://www.defendamerica.mil/images/pho ... 1204d2.jpg
http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncateg ... 051021.jpg
http://www.25idl.army.mil/Deployment/OE ... 070137.jpg
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... -CB_lg.jpg
http://www.illinoisphoto.com/pictures/d ... -06532.jpg
http://www.illinoisphoto.com/pictures/d ... -09390.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 49_SAW.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -02056.jpg

all eclans found on 2 pages of google images, but its kind of offtopic and again, lets wait for MA's

[Zoddom]

add SAW/grenadier/marksman(?)/(LAT?) to spawn menu

load 0.2

[scandhi]

Anyone got a link?

[Spec]

Wont work on 1.41.

[CAS_117]

elcan m249 - Google Image Search''

7 or 8 on the first page.

[Lt Mic]

in my opinion 4 SAW are enough
but 4 L-AT would be nice too
rest kits should be left as now in 0.8
but all kit's should be requested(from crate or depot at main) no spawned (unaviable in spawn menu)(only sl,med,2 rifle and mountainer in spawn menu)

as i'm playing PR: SAW, GL,Marksma are allways aviable
but L-AT is never in your sq when you need it to destroy APC or smth.

in 0.8 i was playing many times with only SL,1(or 2)MEDIC and rest riflemans(opt or is) no (0)request kit's (no because they are unaviable(except LAT is allways unaviable :/) but because we don't want to lose them before we need it)

PS. Spec ops (and sniper{but sniper don't need as radical change}) kit might be "pick up" on main with 20-30 minutes respawn time