Don't read if you hate Snipers

[Alex6714]

Heres the thing.

About bullet drop, you see, in real life I would assume the sniper has his sight adjusted to fit the range, which would basically mean "no bullet drop".

So either you have adjustable scopes, or no bullet drop.

[HughJass]

Heres the thing.

About bullet drop, you see, in real life I would assume the sniper has his sight adjusted to fit the range, which would basically mean "no bullet drop".

So either you have adjustable scopes, or no bullet drop.

thats what the spotter is there for, to calculate bullet drop. IRL snipers wouldn't know because the shooter is actually "below" the spotter. The spotter has way more knowledge.

[McBumLuv]

Bullet drop isn't useless if you've got a spotter. In fact, what's wrong with giving snipers tracer rounds? If anyone's played the WOoKie Sniper mod, you'd know that you are able to adjust the scopes. The way they have it set up wouldn't be practical for pr, however, since you'd need to have a whole new caps lock system for it.

However, snipers in pr will rarely ever have the chance to take shots at over 1 km, so we could have it so that the scope remains zeroed at 600 m, and with ballistics, spotters would be able to calculate how far away the target is, and for snipers to use that knowledge to calculate how high/low they'd have to aim. If worst comes to worst you can always have three weapon slots at different zeros, say 300, 600, and 900 meters.

[Liquid_Cow]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Alex6714;905995']in real life I would assume the sniper has his sight adjusted to fit the range, [/quote]
A huge part of sniper training is learning how to dial in your rifle. "Kentucky windage" or the act of holding over or leading a target is only done when the shot has to be rushed. You learn how to estimate (very accurately) range, wind, target speed, and factor in environmental factors.

[quote="McLuv""]what's wrong with giving snipers tracer rounds?[/quote]
It would be suicide? Snipers work on the fringes of friendly units, help is not always available if they get into trouble. They rely on stealth and camouflage to stay safe. Tracers would give your position away. A sniper does not need tracers to figure out where the bullets are going, he knows where they are going. Besides his training, there's lots of technology that modern snipers carry which provides range data.

[McBumLuv]

^Ok, I guess you're right, I should play a round of pr when I suggest things like that, not right after playing WOoKie

Though, aside from that, what's wrong with giving it bullet drop, when we get actual ballistics? Sniping in pr isn't that long range to the extent that it would totally screw you up.

[Liquid_Cow]

Before we get into PR ballistics let me warn you that this is a very complicated and well hashed over topic. Please see the following threads on the topic:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f257-v ... uracy.html
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... acers.html
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... lines.html
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f66-pr ... g-wip.html

And if your head has not exploded then we can talk about sniper zeroing.

[DesmoLocke]

* this is a re-post of a reply made to the https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... les-3.html thread *

I really like it the way it is. It still takes skill to hit a target at extreme distance. Making it easier when its not that easy in real life would just mean more noob snipers wasting a valuable recon asset. I love working with a spotter and a commander to relay enemy movement to the rest of the team while taking out priority targets like enemy squad leaders and snipers. All to often though, I find that the sniper kit is already requested by someone and they are off some where with 0 kills and can't even see the battle.

Please don't make it easier to shoot. As it is now, it still takes practice and skill to hit a target. I suggest anyone having trouble, to go to a practice server and practice! With some practice, you can hit targets at 800 meters or further. My personal record is 925 meters but here is a video of a 800 meter shot on Kashan.



First, the MEC Airfield was in play as the U.S. had control of all the other flags. My primary objective was relaying armor movements to my team. Secondary objective was to take out any possible jet pilots. Look at the guys reaction after I shoot his buddy! I wish I had this vid from my point of view because I had to aim a good 1.5 meters above his head to account for bullet drop. (Yes, it exists) It translates into about 1.5 cm on my computer monitor. BOOM! Headshot! But, in the end, my team wins (and I go 15-0)! <- Notice how I put the team first...

[Oddsodz]

The Player that knows how to use the SoFlam is the most powerful player on the map.

[Truism]

No, no, no and no.

It isn't that sniping isn't easy enough in PR, it's that it's not difficult enough. It punishes enemies who act like total morons, while requiring questionable skill on the part of the operator. Accentuated bullet drop would be by far the best way of making it an activity that rewards highly skilled players and allows PR snipers to engage enemies in a way closer to what real snipers do - with some forethought, but with a fair bit of certainty, and the ability to hit some types of moving targets. The game should do as little as possible for the players, that's what PR always struck me as being about - removing comforts like glowing crosshairs and convenient but implausible spawn points and forcing the player to pick up the slack and do it for himself - bullet drop fits into this whole thing quite well (there's a pretty good case for accentuating on screen recoil there too).

It would also give a reason for Spotters to exist, because despite what some people have said in this thread, I have played as a spotter, and with some reasonably good spotters, and nothing they or I did enhanced the ability of a sniper to hit things one iota. In those movies, barring memorable, but severe leprosy in the choice of sniping location on Qwai River, the Spotter added next to nothing to the Sniper. You can spot targets all day, but a sniper isn't limited primarily by his ability to acquire targets, but by his ability to actually shoot them because of devation which a spotter doesn't help.

It's a joke, and the idea of using Sniper for recon has been a joke since universal spotting was removed. Why use a limited request kit that can't lay respawn points, can't rearm, can't conduct demolitions, can't bypass obstacles, can't plant mines or trip flares and that is only slightly able to defend itself behind enemy lines for recon? Because there's a scope on your rifle that takes 5 seconds to aim? Good for you, every kit gets a scope with a better magnification and field of view in the form of binoculars, and they come with other pieces of useful equipment.

It's that tea party I was talking about before - just because snipers are good at recon in real life, it doesn't mean they're good at it in PR. Pretending they are might make for a fun game of make believe, but it doesn't make much sense.


I don't hate snipers at all, I like them very much. I don't like players who call black white because it fits with how they think PR should be played, in spite of facts as plain as day.

[Who Dares Wins]

I like been a Spotter but it's incredibly annoying when your marking targets just stood in with no cover between us and them and he's taking shots at some bloody APC.

[DesmoLocke]

Oops, wrong link...doh!

[HughJass]

No, no, no and no.

It isn't that sniping isn't easy enough in PR, it's that it's not difficult enough. It punishes enemies who act like total morons, while requiring questionable skill on the part of the operator. Accentuated bullet drop would be by far the best way of making it an activity that rewards highly skilled players and allows PR snipers to engage enemies in a way closer to what real snipers do - with some forethought, but with a fair bit of certainty, and the ability to hit some types of moving targets. The game should do as little as possible for the players, that's what PR always struck me as being about - removing comforts like glowing crosshairs and convenient but implausible spawn points and forcing the player to pick up the slack and do it for himself - bullet drop fits into this whole thing quite well (there's a pretty good case for accentuating on screen recoil there too).

It would also give a reason for Spotters to exist, because despite what some people have said in this thread, I have played as a spotter, and with some reasonably good spotters, and nothing they or I did enhanced the ability of a sniper to hit things one iota. In those movies, barring memorable, but severe leprosy in the choice of sniping location on Qwai River, the Spotter added next to nothing to the Sniper. You can spot targets all day, but a sniper isn't limited primarily by his ability to acquire targets, but by his ability to actually shoot them because of devation which a spotter doesn't help.

It's a joke, and the idea of using Sniper for recon has been a joke since universal spotting was removed. Why use a limited request kit that can't lay respawn points, can't rearm, can't conduct demolitions, can't bypass obstacles, can't plant mines or trip flares and that is only slightly able to defend itself behind enemy lines for recon? Because there's a scope on your rifle that takes 5 seconds to aim? Good for you, every kit gets a scope with a better magnification and field of view in the form of binoculars, and they come with other pieces of useful equipment.

It's that tea party I was talking about before - just because snipers are good at recon in real life, it doesn't mean they're good at it in PR. Pretending they are might make for a fun game of make believe, but it doesn't make much sense.


I don't hate snipers at all, I like them very much. I don't like players who call black white because it fits with how they think PR should be played, in spite of facts as plain as day.

you have a point, but you are getting it wrong. We've been saying that a spotter is actually a little more then the guy who sits next to you calling targets out (even tough that is WAY more useful then you say it is, ESPECIALLY when you face other snipers.)

the reason everyone is calling it a "recon team" is because like you said, being a spotter in a "sniper team" is a joke. I agree, if you insist on just sitting next to the sniper and not doing anything else.

Only thing a "sniper team" is in fact, sit there and sniper. However, "recon teams" are a little more. 2 types of recon teams, a force recon and a scouting recon. Usually, these "recon teams" are force recon, where the sniper sets up somewhere and covers the "spotter" as he takes out firebases, bridges, and possibly armor if he is armed with a heavy AT, etc.

Rarely does the "recon team" do any actual recon work. This all depends on the commander. IF the commander is good he will constantly listen and spot out targets on the main map as they call em.

Basically, its not all roleplay. I play in a recon team constantly as the spotter and there are an uncountable amount of times where i save the snipers ***, or I call out another sniper, and even turn the tide of battle because we took out a certain piece of armor thats been killing our team.

[Truism]

you have a point, but you are getting it wrong. We've been saying that a spotter is actually a little more then the guy who sits next to you calling targets out (even tough that is WAY more useful then you say it is, ESPECIALLY when you face other snipers.)

the reason everyone is calling it a "recon team" is because like you said, being a spotter in a "sniper team" is a joke. I agree, if you insist on just sitting next to the sniper and not doing anything else.

Only thing a "sniper team" is in fact, sit there and sniper. However, "recon teams" are a little more. 2 types of recon teams, a force recon and a scouting recon. Usually, these "recon teams" are force recon, where the sniper sets up somewhere and covers the "spotter" as he takes out firebases, bridges, and possibly armor if he is armed with a heavy AT, etc.

Rarely does the "recon team" do any actual recon work. This all depends on the commander. IF the commander is good he will constantly listen and spot out targets on the main map as they call em.

Basically, its not all roleplay. I play in a recon team constantly as the spotter and there are an uncountable amount of times where i save the snipers ***, or I call out another sniper, and even turn the tide of battle because we took out a certain piece of armor thats been killing our team.

Eh, we're getting into totally different territory now, using a HAT like an AT Sniper works reasonably well and is how the kit should be used imo. That sort of thing does help a team a lot, and having a ***** or two with you is important because while you can adequately engage at range, you need good information on targets, your position WILL be known, and enemies will be coming for you if they are worth their salt. I'm glad HAT sniping got a nerf, but it still works for its intended purpose.

I can see again what you're talking about with force recon-ing, but I don't think that's the ideal class for it either or even the best balance; Optics Rifle for ammo and some much needed killing power, medic for self sufficiency, engineer for sneaky mines or DM/Gren for more relevant and effective fire support are all better choices in my opinion (but that is just an opinion, when a friend and I do this, we normally go a combination of any two of Engi, Rifle, Medic or SpecOps. Ideally though, a third person allows you to actually use some real force for sneaky uncaps, GLTD marking where relevant, lightning raids, and the all important respawn points.)

The sniper class is obviously going to be improved in some ways in the next version with the introduction of deployed stances. I can only hope that future versions include bullet drop, vBF2 style spotting for snipers only and some substantial differences between how different armies use their snipers.

[AgentMongoose]

I don't really get why people would want to run ground or air transport role for whole game either. Or the people who drive the tank. I drove the tank a few times and it is the most boring thing in the world, no real ability other than to talk and move.

It's Called being a team player