M68 Question

[Spec]

what does that have to do with recoil? It simply lines up faster. Which it actually does in game, as it's blocking your view a lot less than ironsights. I think its quite balanced already.

[ReadMenace]

I get the feeling people are not getting my point here.

Why would anyone put a scope on the gun when all it does is place a red dot on the middle post of the iron sight at its tip which when using a gun with iron sights is what you use anyway? Surely the idea of this scope is so you would mount it so that when looking through it you would not see the iron sights at all.....just the red dot. You might as well take off the scope and use irons only as there is no advantage especially as the M68 does not magnify.

I googled for examples but could not find any footage with an M68 but did find loads using the Eotech. The footage I saw of those has the red crosshair of that scope in the view and you cannot see the irons at all. It is mounted so you cannot see the iron sites. Should the M68 not be like that?

When using the gun ingame with the ACOG, all you see is the ACOG sight and no irons, I just expected that the same would be true when using the gun with an M68.

Ta

Sal

First, the M68 in PR is in a 'full co-witness' setup, meaning that if you were to have a rear sight mounted on the rifle/carbine, the dot and the iron sights would line up perfectly. Why co-witness in this fashion? Any number of reasons, the sight may fail or light conditions may be too bright to view the dot. Anyways, it gives the user the speed in target acquisition and increased field of view, while retaining the reliability of the iron sights.



You could also use a higher mount and go for a 1/3 co-witness in which the front sight is still visible in the lower 3rd of the optic, still allowing for the iron sights to be used. But because how a collimating optic works, the red dot will still overlap the front sight post when the iron sights are used (Assuming they are both zeroed at the same point.) The disadvantage of this option being that your optic is further away from the bore-line.

Now, as for why you don't see the front sight through an ACOG? Well, in real life you do, but is hardly noticeable thanks to the scope's magnification



-REad

ETA: Thanks to the folks on AR15.com for letting me 'borrow' their pictures.

[charliegrs]

im not sure exactly what the op is getting at, but as it stands the aimpoint isnt going anywhere in PR, its used in real life so why would they take it out? and the front posts on the m16/m4 arent going anywhere either, they are still there in real life. and yes the m68 does not have any zoom, its not supposed to, like in real life. whats its advantage over a regular ironsight you asked? increased visibility as we stated before. your area of view is much better with the m68 than with the ironsights. also, im sure if in real life there was aimpoints that the other factions used that the devs would have added them so i think its safe to say there isnt.

[Salraine_Chi]

im not sure exactly what the op is getting at, but as it stands the aimpoint isnt going anywhere in PR, its used in real life so why would they take it out? and the front posts on the m16/m4 arent going anywhere either, they are still there in real life. and yes the m68 does not have any zoom, its not supposed to, like in real life. whats its advantage over a regular ironsight you asked? increased visibility as we stated before. your area of view is much better with the m68 than with the ironsights. also, im sure if in real life there was aimpoints that the other factions used that the devs would have added them so i think its safe to say there isnt.

All I asked was: why it was like that ingame and was it realistic as it does not seem to me to have any advantage over iron sights. Yes I knew it does not have any zoom as I mentioned that in my posts but having never even seen a M16 or scope in real life I was after information. Also, I never asked for the M68 to be taken out in any of my posts.

The reply from ReadMenace was exactly what I was after and thank you for explaining how these scopes work and for posting pictures of them and now I can see PR has done them as well as can be, given the limitations of the BF2 engine.

The reply by Waldo_ii was good as well as that explained how the M68 works. I did have a look on youtube for videos but the only one I could find was a guy with the scope standing by itself looking at a teddy bear with him moving the camera to show how the dot stays on the target even if the operator moves. I guessed that they worked in a similar way to the EOTech which I have seen vids of.

Thank you both for your replies,

Please close this thread

Sal

[ReadMenace]

The reply from ReadMenace was exactly what I was after and thank you for explaining how these scopes work and for posting pictures of them and now I can see PR has done them as well as can be, given the limitations of the BF2 engine.

I feel both warm AND fuzzy inside! No problem Salraine.

-REad

[Salraine_Chi]

I feel both warm AND fuzzy inside! No problem Salraine.

-REad

And well deserved fuzzyness

I am going to Vietnam in March and am planning to get my hands on some Vietnam war era guns to fire. Hopfully a AK47, M16 and fingers crossed, an RPG. Living in England I have never even seen a real gun in my 43 years on this planet. Well I tell a lie as I saw one in New York on holiday at a distance. I didnt dare stare at the policeman much though as he looked like Ray Liotta and scared me.

Ta

Sal

[Spaz]

It needs to be on USMC medic!

Please no, let me have my loved ironsights on at least 1 M16.

[Guybrush]

Please no, let me have my loved ironsights on at least 1 M16.

Agreed, ironsights are getting rarer with the USA/USMC kits. I even wish to see the good old M16A2 on 1 or 2 kits, for a bit of variety.
I mean, even the crewmen kits have aimpoints now which leaves only the Corpsman and the H-AT with ironsights.

[Hotrod525]

Well, the Medic should got MARS for MARINES, and EOTECH for USARMY!!!



Back on topic, the M68 is more something like a "reflex" sight than a "Scope". Similare to E.O.Tech or JetFighter hud, you got the impression the dot is floating whitin the tube, that give alot more accuracy on close quarter whit a high hit probability.


And what i'm gonna doe is nearly traitory but ! the Vanilla BF2 red dot was more realistic cause you where gettin the impression that was a real light reflection..not just a colored point in you're scope...

Same thing apply for Acog, the Red crosshaire should be illuminated by the optical wire over the scope...

[nf9648]

I get the feeling people are not getting my point here.

Why would anyone put a scope on the gun when all it does is place a red dot on the middle post of the iron sight at its tip which when using a gun with iron sights is what you use anyway? Surely the idea of this scope is so you would mount it so that when looking through it you would not see the iron sights at all.....just the red dot. You might as well take off the scope and use irons only as there is no advantage especially as the M68 does not magnify.

I googled for examples but could not find any footage with an M68 but did find loads using the Eotech. The footage I saw of those has the red crosshair of that scope in the view and you cannot see the irons at all. It is mounted so you cannot see the iron sites. Should the M68 not be like that?

When using the gun ingame with the ACOG, all you see is the ACOG sight and no irons, I just expected that the same would be true when using the gun with an M68.

Ta

Sal

You wont notice in the game , but in real life you attain a proper sight picture with the front and rear sights, which takes time and the ability to maintain the same cheekweld and sight picture everytime you shoot your rifle. With an M68 or Eotech or any other non-magnified holographic/collminating type optic, all you need to do is bring the rifle up and place the dot on the target. Even if the dot is not centered within the optic, if you can see it and it is on your intended target it will hit that spot. The proper technique is to keep both eyes open and focus on the target, not the sight; whereas with iron sights you need to get a proper sight picture (alignment of sights on target) and focus on the front sight post in order to shoot accurately. With practice iron sights are fast, but with practice using a red dot sight is faster.

As for another guys post, there are a lot of countries using red dot sights. Aimpoint (the company) is Swedish, and their products are used all over the world. The Israeli's developed the ITL MARS sight, which resembles the eotech and uses a single AA battery, uses a single red dot unlike the eotech and has a co-witnessing laser (visible red or IR depending on model)
that is activated by tape switch or a built in switch for the models on the Tavor rifle. Russians have a variety of Red dot sights, to include the Kobra sights modeled in the vanilla BF2 game on the AKS-74U (MEC SF guy); which can all be viewed and purchased here; if I think of any other optics I have seen later I will post them up.

edit* Here are a couple pics, first shows the difference between the old and new M68 sights (Aimpoint Comp M2 on the right and M4S on the left) and the M68 on my issued rifle last time in the sandbox.

[Rudd]

The need for the unlocked weapon selector is again warranted.

[Deebo]

Aye thats fair enough but if I add a scope I would expect an improvement and not what seems to be the irons with a red dot on top.

I was an air rifle enthusiast when I was younger and my dad bought me a scope for it. It was about a 4 x magnification and as most scopes sits high on the rifle and I could not see the iron sights when using it.

There just seems no point to it over iron sights in game as it is. Never having used a M16 or M4 in real life I do not know what I would see. Anyone have real world experience with this?

Ta

Sal

I have used the m68 in the army on an m4 and an m16 a4, and I can tell you for a fact that the dot is ABOVE ABOVE ABOVE the front sight post, not right on it as in PR. It does NOTHING for you in PR except give you less field of view, id rather not have it at all if they wont raise the dot. And for some reason when I posted about it before the dev tells me it works fine! wtf?!?!?! You will see the front sight post through the m68, but the dot goes a little above it.


Deebo

[R.J.Travis]

I have used the m68 in the army on an m4 and an m16 a4, and I can tell you for a fact that the dot is ABOVE ABOVE ABOVE the front sight post, not right on it as in PR. It does NOTHING for you in PR except give you less field of view, id rather not have it at all if they wont raise the dot. And for some reason when I posted about it before the dev tells me it works fine! wtf?!?!?! You will see the front sight post through the m68, but the dot goes a little above it.


Deebo

FYI People.

the post is there because the red dot moves and the post is the real aim point they left it so if your dot moves 3m to the left your not just totally left in the dark go ahead walk and watch the red dot move around the post.

[spartan117gw]

brighter dot. and somehow make optic closer to face or some slight zoom cus it isnt good for distance at all. even thouh acog isfor it. just feel like the m68 isnt just like the real one (which i got to use in a night jump) freain awsome. cus your face does get closer to the weapon. but it doesnt realy happen ingame. great model though and the sights are like the real ones

[Rabbit]

brighter dot. and somehow make optic closer to face or some slight zoom cus it isnt good for distance at all. even thouh acog isfor it. just feel like the m68 isnt just like the real one (which i got to use in a night jump) freain awsome. cus your face does get closer to the weapon. but it doesnt realy happen ingame. great model though and the sights are like the real ones

well it doesnt have to be so close to your face, you could move it down the rail farther away from your face, and or pull the stock al/ the way to th rear.

[Hotrod525]

brighter dot. and somehow make optic closer to face or some slight zoom cus it isnt good for distance at all. even thouh acog isfor it. just feel like the m68 isnt just like the real one (which i got to use in a night jump) freain awsome. cus your face does get closer to the weapon. but it doesnt realy happen ingame. great model though and the sights are like the real ones

you serve whit the Airborn ? niiice

B-O-T; Can we had a illuminated dot whit the M68 and a illuminated crosshaire whit the Acog. Similar to VBF2 red dot, i REALY HATE to say that, but DICE made it more realistic, im talking of the DOT ITSELF NOTHING ELSE.

ACOG dont need battery whit the optical wire, but the red crosshair is also illuminated.

[Cp]

you serve whit the Airborn ? niiice

B-O-T; Can we had a illuminated dot whit the M68 and a illuminated crosshaire whit the Acog. Similar to VBF2 red dot, i REALY HATE to say that, but DICE made it more realistic, im talking of the DOT ITSELF NOTHING ELSE.

ACOG dont need battery whit the optical wire, but the red crosshair is also illuminated.

No, you cant have it. The red dot will appear as soon as you click the right mouse button and thus will be visible long before you have brought the scope to your eye.

[ReadMenace]

No, you cant have it. The red dot will appear as soon as you click the right mouse button and thus will be visible long before you have brought the scope to your eye.

I understand that part of it. In regards to the ACOG, it is a 3d model right? More or less an open-ended cylinder with the 3d reticle in it? If we moved the reticle's chevron out the front end of the cylinder, it might pick up the map's light in a more pronounced fashion, simulating the fiber optic.

-REad

[nf9648]

I have used the m68 in the army on an m4 and an m16 a4, and I can tell you for a fact that the dot is ABOVE ABOVE ABOVE the front sight post, not right on it as in PR. It does NOTHING for you in PR except give you less field of view, id rather not have it at all if they wont raise the dot. And for some reason when I posted about it before the dev tells me it works fine! wtf?!?!?! You will see the front sight post through the m68, but the dot goes a little above it.


Deebo

The optic as it comes will cowitness with the iron sights. There is a riser in the box that every armorer should be installing between the top of the ring and the lower part of the mount that will raise the optic so that the sights are in the bottom 1/3 of your sight picture if you center the dot to your eye. If you choose to use Iron sights with the riser the dot will still lollypop on top the front sight if your irons and M68 are zeroed.

After playing I have found another flaw that wasnt present in the vanilla game with the M68. The dot is not etched on the glass, so you will not see it from the side. The way it is modeled in the new version of PR, it floats around as though etched on the ocular lens of the optic which would be impossible since the M68 dot is projected from the middle of the tube towards the objective lens; all you would see from a rear angle is the inside of the tube. Heres a pic of where the dot is projected from, forgive the dirty lens as I run my gear hard.

[ReaperMAC]

The way it is modeled in the new version of PR, it floats around as though etched on the ocular lens of the optic which would be impossible since the M68 dot is projected from the middle of the tube towards the objective lens; all you would see from a rear angle is the inside of the tube.

It was a way to make 3D Aimpoints and Im happy with it.