MBT balancing

[General Dragosh]

And of course you would say all the same things about the German faction they say about the US one. The real one, that is. Anyways, I would also like to see America get wtfstomped by some other nation. It is time those imperialistic pigs stopped being just like everyone else.

I really wish the MEC would get a locally produced tank or two

Come on guys, they're *fictional*; use that to your advantage!

M.

We need a more *expanded story* for MEC so everyone will stop arguing ain't that right ?

[Salah ad Din]

And of course you would say all the same things about the German faction they say about the US one. The real one, that is. Anyways, I would also like to see America get wtfstomped by some other nation. It is time those imperialistic pigs stopped being just like everyone else.

I really wish the MEC would get a locally produced tank or two

Come on guys, they're *fictional*; use that to your advantage!

M.

What about this one:

Zulfiqar

The Zulfiqar, the as yet mysterious Iranian MBT. Locally produced.
And anybody telling me now, that Iran will NEVOR be in the MEC together with Arab countries 'cause they're PERSIANS can go and... eat some peanuts, or whatever.

The MEC is a fictional Faction. This basically gives the DEVs a free hand as to what they really are.

First, take all the Middle Eastern countries, because it's called ME Coalition. Now, to say that Iran would not participate in an Alliance uniting all of the ME countries is ridiculous, IMHO.

And they would play a major part in that alliance, since Iran is something of a super-power in the region.

Btw, somewhere in one of the first posts, someone wrote that the MEC has grouped up to "do damage to the US".

Of course!!! Thats why there are so many maps where MEC is defending and US is attacking. Seriously guy, accept the fact that in PR (and vBF2, and RL), the US are an aggressor invading foreign countries.

And to finish this post, a little something I wrote up some time ago:

The Middle Eastern Coalition (MEC)

History

During the late 20th and early 21st century, the situation in the Middle East resembled more and more a powder cask, ready to explode at any moment. While the European Community was more or less looking helplessly on the development, unable to make any concise decisions, the United States took the initiative and began a series of military operations. These were publicly advertised as humanitarian operations, destined to bring peace, stability and democracy to the region. Everyone knew though, that the main goal was simply to secure US access to the oil reserves of the Middle East.

After the invasions into Afghanistan and Iraq, the countries in the region started to realize, that if they wanted to prevent being picked off one by one, they had to unite their forces. Initially, in the first decade of the 21st century, super secret talks of high ranking military and religious leaders and select politicians took place. While the US were struggling to get Iraq and Afghanistan under control and at the same time coveting a possible invasion into Iran, these meetings provided the foundations for what would become the Middle Eastern Coalition.

The leaders of the ME countries knew, they had to create a political, economical and military entity similar to the European Community or the United States, if they wanted to maintain their independence from Western countries. But they also knew, that as long as the US had a third of their military stationed in the region, no such entity would be viable. So they bidded their time.

Finally, in 2010, pressured by increasing budgetary cuts, the US government withdrew the major part of their Iraq forces, leaving only a token force. Also, some units were kept stationed in Saudi Arabia. In Afghanistan, the coalition forces were still struggling with Taliban militias, but the core countries of the Middle East were more or less free of western militaries.

In a coordinated move, the military of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Kuweit, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Yemen overthrew their governments and took control.

During Operation Spring Cleaning, all Foreign Military Units stationed in these countries were surrounded, disarmed and given over to local UN forces which quickly extracted these forces. Casualties were kept to a minimum.

The MEC leaders had discussed for a long time on how to organize the new entity they would create and had decided on a federal system, essentially similar to the European Community, with the difference, that no nation would retain its military.

On March, 24th 2011, the MEC Council revealed itself in the city of Baghdad and announced the formation of the Middle Eastern Coalition. Each nation would retain its national law and political structure. Because the national militaries were under control of the MEC Council, local resistance was minimal. Also, almost everyone knew instinctively, that the times for inter-nation quarreling were at an end.

The Western Countries were stunned by the move. While they were scrambling to get their disarmed troops home, they were also struggling on grasping the consequences of a united Middle East. Israel immediately went to Martial Law and declared a State of Emergency, fearing an invasion by the United MEC forces. The US started to mobilize their whole military, getting ready to go to full scale war with the whole of the Middle East over the remaining oil resources.
China, on the other hand, immediately started to search for diplomatic contacts. They had no interest in military engagement in the ME but every interest in the local Oil.

On May, 1st 2011, a MEC envoy addressed the UN Full Assembly in an Emergency Session. He declared, that henceforth, the constituent nations of the MEC were no longer members of the United Nations. They were no longer independent nations, but part of the MEC. As such, there would be only one representative of the MEC in the UN. In the same address, the MEC demanded to be made a permanent member of the UN Security Council. The MEC envoy expressed its wish to maintain peaceful diplomatic relations with Europe, the United States and especially Israel, thus removing any reasons for immediate military actions by the West.
He further declared, that the combined Oil Reserves of the Middle East are considered to be the rightful property of the MEC citizens. As such, all foreign oil companies will have their licenses revoked. All oil production facilities owned by foreign companies will be force-bought by existing or new-founded national companies. Oil production and sales will continue as usual though, only the oil will now actually benefit the population of the MEC.

[Rudd]

All oil production facilities owned by foreign companies will be force-bought by existing or new-founded national companies. Oil production and sales will continue as usual though, only the oil will now actually benefit the population of the MEC.

would so interesting if that happened IRL

[Scot]

^This thread

Aaaanyhoo, in reference to the OP, all tanks nowadays are extremely similar, there is no 'best tank', it's down to the crew of the tank.

Who knows what is being made by the Iranians or Chinese, whether it is better than the US stuff or UK stuff etc, it doesn't really matter, because funnily enough, we don't know. So as said, the MEC is fictional, so tbh it wouldn't bother me greatly if they got the Zulfiqar, but no tank would be sooo much better than any other tank, that is the simple truth. It's the crew, and that is accurately portrayed in game.

[Cobhris]

The Middle Eastern Coalition (MEC)

History

During the late 20th and early 21st century, the situation in the Middle East resembled more and more a powder cask, ready to explode at any moment. While the European Community was more or less looking helplessly on the development, unable to make any concise decisions, the United States took the initiative and began a series of military operations. These were publicly advertised as humanitarian operations, destined to bring peace, stability and democracy to the region. Everyone knew though, that the main goal was simply to secure US access to the oil reserves of the Middle East.

After the invasions into Afghanistan and Iraq, the countries in the region started to realize, that if they wanted to prevent being picked off one by one, they had to unite their forces. Initially, in the first decade of the 21st century, super secret talks of high ranking military and religious leaders and select politicians took place. While the US were struggling to get Iraq and Afghanistan under control and at the same time coveting a possible invasion into Iran, these meetings provided the foundations for what would become the Middle Eastern Coalition.

The leaders of the ME countries knew, they had to create a political, economical and military entity similar to the European Community or the United States, if they wanted to maintain their independence from Western countries. But they also knew, that as long as the US had a third of their military stationed in the region, no such entity would be viable. So they bidded their time.

Finally, in 2010, pressured by increasing budgetary cuts, the US government withdrew the major part of their Iraq forces, leaving only a token force. Also, some units were kept stationed in Saudi Arabia. In Afghanistan, the coalition forces were still struggling with Taliban militias, but the core countries of the Middle East were more or less free of western militaries.

In a coordinated move, the military of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Kuweit, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Yemen overthrew their governments and took control.

During Operation Spring Cleaning, all Foreign Military Units stationed in these countries were surrounded, disarmed and given over to local UN forces which quickly extracted these forces. Casualties were kept to a minimum.

The MEC leaders had discussed for a long time on how to organize the new entity they would create and had decided on a federal system, essentially similar to the European Community, with the difference, that no nation would retain its military.

On March, 24th 2011, the MEC Council revealed itself in the city of Baghdad and announced the formation of the Middle Eastern Coalition. Each nation would retain its national law and political structure. Because the national militaries were under control of the MEC Council, local resistance was minimal. Also, almost everyone knew instinctively, that the times for inter-nation quarreling were at an end.

The Western Countries were stunned by the move. While they were scrambling to get their disarmed troops home, they were also struggling on grasping the consequences of a united Middle East. Israel immediately went to Martial Law and declared a State of Emergency, fearing an invasion by the United MEC forces. The US started to mobilize their whole military, getting ready to go to full scale war with the whole of the Middle East over the remaining oil resources.
China, on the other hand, immediately started to search for diplomatic contacts. They had no interest in military engagement in the ME but every interest in the local Oil.

On May, 1st 2011, a MEC envoy addressed the UN Full Assembly in an Emergency Session. He declared, that henceforth, the constituent nations of the MEC were no longer members of the United Nations. They were no longer independent nations, but part of the MEC. As such, there would be only one representative of the MEC in the UN. In the same address, the MEC demanded to be made a permanent member of the UN Security Council. The MEC envoy expressed its wish to maintain peaceful diplomatic relations with Europe, the United States and especially Israel, thus removing any reasons for immediate military actions by the West.
He further declared, that the combined Oil Reserves of the Middle East are considered to be the rightful property of the MEC citizens. As such, all foreign oil companies will have their licenses revoked. All oil production facilities owned by foreign companies will be force-bought by existing or new-founded national companies. Oil production and sales will continue as usual though, only the oil will now actually benefit the population of the MEC.

I like this story. Much better than mine IMO.

[R.J.Travis]

remove the fake army and replace them with a real one stop using the easy road lol

[Hresvelgr]

The fact that you used lol makes me want to completely disregard your post, but nevertheless, why spend all the time it takes creating a new faction just to satisfy two users including you when EA already made one? Besides, the Reality part of PR is about tactics. Making it so it's just the US versus a random Arab army with much less equipment and people kinda kills the entire point of fighting a roughly equal enemy and using your head.

Also, the MEC probably would include Iran. I know there is hatred between Persians and Arabs, but there is hatred between people in a lot of countries. More importantly, if the MEC did not include Iran it definitely would be called the Arab Coalition or something similar considering all the pan-Arab movements there are. Middle-East is a term used when including Iran in addition to the Arab countries.

How will the new Chinese tank (ZTZ-99) compare to the Abrams in PR? I heard it is pretty damn good.

[azn_chopsticks_boi]

I think you guys missed the point, as [R-Dev]Jaymz stated Asymmetrical Tank warfare and the MEC tanks is T72M1M.

[R.J.Travis]

The fact that you used lol makes me want to completely disregard your post, but nevertheless, why spend all the time it takes creating a new faction just to satisfy two users including you when EA already made one? Besides, the Reality part of PR is about tactics. Making it so it's just the US versus a random Arab army with much less equipment and people kinda kills the entire point of fighting a roughly equal enemy and using your head.

Also, the MEC probably would include Iran. I know there is hatred between Persians and Arabs, but there is hatred between people in a lot of countries. More importantly, if the MEC did not include Iran it definitely would be called the Arab Coalition or something similar considering all the pan-Arab movements there are. Middle-East is a term used when including Iran in addition to the Arab countries.

How will the new Chinese tank (ZTZ-99) compare to the Abrams in PR? I heard it is pretty damn good.

Because I said so end of story the USA has spoken LOL

[Expendable Grunt]

Iran would sooner die and you know it. In fact they would probably make their own alliances in response.

Anyways, this thread is kaput.

M.

[STORM-Mama]

This thread is quite interesting... Do the people that want to turn MEC into a crappy third-world army with inferior eqipment ever play anything else than US/GB? Get a feeling that they are part of the "have to switch, don't wanna be the evil guyz"-gang.

Interesting that so many Americans have so much confidence in their own hardware... Understandable, but that doesn't mean that any war against an army equiped with Russian equipment would turn into an old-fashioned rape-fest.

[Solid Knight]

Probably because a lot of the "hostile" middle eastern countries don't have fancy toys. In reality, the US has way more types of resources than most of the middle eastern countries. It's not just oh this jet vs this jet or this tank vs this tank. It's about capabilities. For example, the US could launch missiles from thousands of miles away. They could send bombers in from, say Florida, on a round-trip mission. They can rapidly deploy their forces around the world. The ME can't do any of those. This changes the game quite a bit.

[Salah ad Din]

Iran would sooner die and you know it. In fact they would probably make their own alliances in response.

With whom?

@Travis: The only two armies that could conceivably survive a prolonged conflict with the US Military are the Russians and the Chinese. Since PR is set in the near future, where is the problem of imagining another faction that has the resources to go head to head with the US? The MEC is here to stay.

*checking OP for on-topicness*

They should be using older technology that is inferior to the US M1A2 Abrams

Why? There is no reason for that. Even if money can't BUY everything, it can still be used to acquire a lot of things. This is a game, so you have to imagine quite a lot of things. What about this:

Code: Select all

Realizing the need for a MBT that is up to par with the Abrams or Challenger, the secretive MEC council forerunner initiated the building of infrastructure that can be used to build tanks. Military Research institutions were founded.
Incidentally, the Russian SVR managed to procure blueprints of the Challenger, Abrams and Merkava and sold them secretly to the pre-emergent MEC.
As soon as the MEC Council revealed itself, massive amounts of money were poured into military projects, amongst others the design and construction of an MEC MBT.
The MEC recruited immigrant scientists and engineers trained in the West.
Soon, the first MBT prototype was built, tested and approved and shortly after, mass production began.

The US does have an advantage over the MEC, and it should be portrayed this way.

Eh, how do you know that. On what currently existing MEC army do you base that intel?

About your second issue: lot of that is hardcoded. Although tanks can receive different damage to their hitpoints according to where they are hit, there are not separate hitpoint accounts for vehicle parts. (Unless the DEVs manage to make a vehicle that is in game-terms made up of lots of separate vehicles that move in cohesion, but I believe that was tried already with getting more than eight guys in a chopper and didn't work).
IIRC, the mobility kills are random chance according to damage received.

Third issue: Chopper resilience. Haven't noticed yet, I tend not to shoot at choppers with tanks. In 0.806 (?) I downed a chopper once with a HEAT round, never tried it in 0.85. Chopper spin = hardcoded?

[SocketMan]

The main advantage that the US has over any other country in the
world is the number of Aircraft carriers.They have more then all the
other countries combined.

This is already in game with all the maps featuring US carriers
untouchable by the opposition.

As far as the other toys go:

ICBM's -Topol-M is the best there is or will be in the next 10 years

MLRS -The Russian "Smerch" has double the range of the US counterpart

The most famous/popular/best small arm -AK-47

The most famous/popular/cost effective RPG -rpg7

The best aircraft - tough call (Eurofighter/F35/F22/Mig35/Mig31/Su33...etc)
The best tank -maybe the German L2,but not a clear winner
The best Air Defences -S-400 by a long margin over the "Patriot"
The best helicopters -many think it's Ah-64 many others Ka-50/52 Mi 28n

APC/IFV --BMP3 hands down

What else?

[Flanker15]

I wouldn't jump on the "BMP-3 is the best" wagon so quickly, it does have a fearsome weapon system but its armor is still incredibly thin. You can't just swiss cheese it with a .5 machine gun like the BMP-2 but a 25mm shot will still go right through any armor on it and most likly set off the ammunition in the autoloader.
The M2 on the other hand can stop things like 30mm shots from the BMP-2/3 and regular rpgs with it's front armor and has its ammo stored better, with less chance of explosions and fires.

[Hotrod525]

The main advantage that the US has over any other country in the
world is the number of Aircraft carriers.They have more then all the
other countries combined.

This is already in game with all the maps featuring US carriers
untouchable by the opposition.

As far as the other toys go:

ICBM's -Topol-M is the best there is or will be in the next 10 years

MLRS -The Russian "Smerch" has double the range of the US counterpart

The most famous/popular/best small arm -AK-47

The most famous/popular/cost effective RPG -rpg7

The best aircraft - tough call (Eurofighter/F35/F22/Mig35/Mig31/Su33...etc)
The best tank -maybe the German L2,but not a clear winner
The best Air Defences -S-400 by a long margin over the "Patriot"
The best helicopters -many think it's Ah-64 many others Ka-50/52 Mi 28n

APC/IFV --BMP3 hands down

What else?

the most famous/popular/best car -Ferrari, does it make Italian special ?

If Russian Armement spread all over the world is cause USSR fall under its own weight, when you had milions of guns, bomb, vehicle...etc... stole and resale, that dosent realy make you the best weapons manufacturer on earth. That only explain why every one use you're stuff.

[Axel]

1+ to STORM-mama's post, it would be far better to make the MEC a capable army with good equipments who make assaults here and there (MEC woodland :O ) instead of an evil empire armed with evil communist weapons, bah!

[SocketMan]

I wouldn't jump on the "BMP-3 is the best" wagon so quickly, it does have a fearsome weapon system but its armor is still incredibly thin. You can't just swiss cheese it with a .5 machine gun like the BMP-2 but a 25mm shot will still go right through any armor on it and most likly set off the ammunition in the autoloader.
The M2 on the other hand can stop things like 30mm shots from the BMP-2/3 and regular rpgs with it's front armor and has its ammo stored better, with less chance of explosions and fires.

but it's heavier and does not swim or has a 100mm of pure "love"
As far as USSR collapsing that has little to do with the mass spread of
AK's or RPG's been the case well before 1991.

As for Ferrari check this out:


YouTube - Ferrari 348 vs Turbo Lada



YouTube - DCS Turbo Lada vs Porsche




Check the operators for M2A2 Bradley:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2A2_Bradley#Users


and for BMP3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_3#Operators

[Tirak]

The main advantage that the US has over any other country in the
world is the number of Aircraft carriers.They have more then all the
other countries combined.

This is already in game with all the maps featuring US carriers
untouchable by the opposition.

This is for gameplay, not what's best. The Essex is an assault ship, not an aircraft carrier, and when the HMS Ocean is completed or any assault ship for any other faction is done, it too will have a dome of death.

As far as the other toys go:

ICBM's -Topol-M is the best there is or will be in the next 10 years

Maybe, most of what I see on it is propaganda, but in terms of effectiveness, the ICBM became outdated the moment the cold war ended. I don't believe the grand claims of the missile being able to penetrate any air defense net simply because what people say about their weapon system and what they are able to do with it are two massively different things. Until Nuclear War occurs, debating the effectiveness of ICBMs against modern Air Defense Networks is all **** waving and patriotism.

MLRS -The Russian "Smerch" has double the range of the US counterpart

This statement is all wrong in the way it's set up. The MLRS is the launcher, not the missile. If we're talking about how far it can go, they're both unlimited as Artillery is well supplied and protected. If we're talking about missiles, the US ATACMS missile has a range of 128 km, compared to the longest listed range missile for the SMERCH is 90 km.

The most famous/popular/best small arm -AK-47

Combining too many things in this statement. Popularity is the 47 through distribution, not necessarily choice, and famous depends on the part of the world your in. As for best, that falls to the XM-8 Assault Rifle which was proven to be the most accurate and most reliable rifle as done during a comparison of assault rifles originally commissioned by the US Army, but later H&K did the test with every major assault rifle.

The most famous/popular/cost effective RPG -rpg7

Well of course the RPG-7 is going to win this, the US doesn't use RPGs, it uses Recoiless Rifles

The best aircraft - tough call (Eurofighter/F35/F22/Mig35/Mig31/Su33...etc)

Incredible amounts of excess fail here. If we're talking about air to air combat, there is no better than the F-22. The Eurofighter is a generation out of date, the 35 can't match the speed and maneuverability, the MiG 35 is again, behind the times but a good choice for second place, the MiG 31 wouldn't make a top 10 list and the SU-33 is just a carrier variant of the SU-27. Never challenge the US in the skies, which is why in PR, they give the US the F-16 instead of the F-15 or F-22, for balanced realism.

The best tank -maybe the German L2,but not a clear winner

Finally something we can agree on, the Leopard 2, Challenger 2 and M1A1 are top contenders, Russian tank design has begun to lag behind, but the US would be hard pressed to say it had the best tank.

The best Air Defences -S-400 by a long margin over the "Patriot"

Can't argue here either, the Patriot has disappointed many and the fact we keep pouring money into it to enhance it is somewhat sickening.

The best helicopters -many think it's Ah-64 many others Ka-50/52 Mi 28n

Again, never challenger the US if you fly, the AH-64 Apache Longbow is the latest and greatest in Attack Helicopters, hands down. Greater weapon arcs, greater redundancy and better weapon and fire control systems make the Apache Longbow the king of helicopters.

APC/IFV --BMP3 hands down

This is ****, sorry, but it is. It simply can't compete with the versatility of vehicles like the Bradley. Thin skinned makes its survivability suspect and the presence of an autoloader makes reloading suspect. A good human loader can reload faster than an autoloader with a much lower chance of the human malfunctioning, or ripping the arm off the gunner.

[STORM-Mama]

It's about capabilities. For example, the US could launch missiles from thousands of miles away. They could send bombers in from, say Florida, on a round-trip mission. They can rapidly deploy their forces around the world. The ME can't do any of those. This changes the game quite a bit.

True, but the war portrayed in PR is fought in MEC territory. US might be able to "rapidly deploy" their troops in the ME, but the MEC armies will still have tons of troops close to the frontline because its their territory. Same goes for the bombers and the rest of the stuff.

I feel bad about myself for following you this deep into the OT-swamp. We are discussing the MECs right to a decent MBT, not "rapid deployment", etc.