Question about Future of PR.

[Doom721]

I think I will continue to follow PR, though I have nothing against it running on the BF2 engine.... It would be nice for some more support from EA/Dice or whomever controls the rights to the game engine, but if PR continues at the same rate of steady releases and content, eventually almost all goals within the bf2 engine will be completed and you will look for more

Worst case scenario: Best bf2 mod ever made..

Best case scenario: Dream engine comes out / is found and PR evolves into PR2

[Brood]

Saying that the tactical FPS community is dying is a horrible analysis of what is actually happening. All we are seeing is a trend, as more people become learned "casual gamers" we will see developers once again making more intricate and engaging titles in an effort to keep fresh. The tactical FPS community will see a revival and everyone will rejoice.

This is probably something that is 2-3 years away, but it is definitely happening.

In the end it all comes down to how you market something, eve is a terribly complicated game but somehow manages to keep it's server population at 30,000+ with 500,000 subscribers. It has great PR and marketing, constantly adds fresh content and is something different and adventagous in a sea of mediocrity.

Some of you might see this as a weird sort of comparison, but just sit back and compare the learning curves for a second.

Project Reality doesn't do too bad for itself either, for a modification of a an old game. There is always a few full servers. At peak times there can be 20+. This isn't too bad at all, most mods that began at the same time as PR have died out and their communities have forgotten them. The last mod I can remember doing this was Desert Combat for BF1942.

I'd say the best thing to do is sit back and enjoy what the devs have made for us, keep pushing for the source code if you want. But otherwise time will eventually reveal the ideal engine and then we can start pushing for a PR2. Such an engine does not yet exist, the closest thing we have is OFP2 and ARMA2.

So tired... bed time, peace ya'll.

[Truism]

Saying that the tactical FPS community is dying is a horrible analysis of what is actually happening. All we are seeing is a trend, as more people become learned "casual gamers" we will see developers once again making more intricate and engaging titles in an effort to keep fresh. The tactical FPS community will see a revival and everyone will rejoice.

This is probably something that is 2-3 years away, but it is definitely happening.

In the end it all comes down to how you market something, eve is a terribly complicated game but somehow manages to keep it's server population at 30,000+ with 500,000 subscribers. It has great PR and marketing, constantly adds fresh content and is something different and adventagous in a sea of mediocrity.

Some of you might see this as a weird sort of comparison, but just sit back and compare the learning curves for a second.

Project Reality doesn't do too bad for itself either, for a modification of a an old game. There is always a few full servers. At peak times there can be 20+. This isn't too bad at all, most mods that began at the same time as PR have died out and their communities have forgotten them. The last mod I can remember doing this was Desert Combat for BF1942.

I'd say the best thing to do is sit back and enjoy what the devs have made for us, keep pushing for the source code if you want. But otherwise time will eventually reveal the ideal engine and then we can start pushing for a PR2. Such an engine does not yet exist, the closest thing we have is OFP2 and ARMA2.

So tired... bed time, peace ya'll.

Quoted because you mentioned DC.

[JKRMAUI]

Throw up some fire works, get some hard core investors.

Create and birth the finest Combined Arms FPS game ever to be.

You guys have a strong enough community, the work you have done with the BF2 engine cannot be denied.

Any one here know any insanely rich people??? Start hinting "HEY!! UNCLE! You know how you're like a multi billionaire!?! I heard about this modding group, they made this mod called Project Reality, its intense. Trust me, 5432553% return if they ever get a game of their own on shelves"

[Yeti Pilot]

Just remember if u get out into the big big world remember not to get eaten by the big game studios * cough * EA * cough*

[eggman]

Saying that the tactical FPS community is dying is a horrible analysis of what is actually happening. All we are seeing is a trend, as more people become learned "casual gamers" we will see developers once again making more intricate and engaging titles in an effort to keep fresh. The tactical FPS community will see a revival and everyone will rejoice.

I dind't say the tactical fps community is dying... what I said was:

[quote=""eggman"]
Consoles are dominating the gaming industry and I think good multiplayer tactical gaming is going to suffer, especially in the coming years of ruthless cost savings by studios. I am of the view that the only way a really, really good large scale multiplayer tactical game is going to get made is if it IS free from commercial requirements.
[/quote]

And I probably should have said "good, large scale multiplayer tactical gaming is going to suffer..."

The tactical gaming community will always be a thriving niche. Unfortunately more and more people think that the Rainbox Six series as it is today represents everything tactical gaming needs to be. For me the "virtual battlefield" and large scale multiplayer combined arms aspects of tactical gaming are the most interesting.

And, in my own selfish way of seeing the world hehe.... I see fewer gaming companies really making commitments to that space. I see that largely being driven by economics.. PC gaming is as expensive as Console gaming to produce. And the PC market is shrinking relative to the console market. (please don't try and argue that unless you have sales figures that somehow I don't have access to).

So my take on it is that I don't think leaving it to AAA studios and commercial, share holder driven organizations is going to see the "virtual battlefield" realized. I think a bunch of fanatical whack jobs are going to get that done

Case in point.... look at the Office software space. Nobody was able to "topple" MS Office. Lots of companies went bankrupt trying. But the open source movement with Open Office has made a huge impact on MS Office. You can say the same (to a much larger extent) about the operating systems marketplace.

[quote="Brood""]
This is probably something that is 2-3 years away, but it is definitely happening.
[/quote]

What facts do you have to support that? The facts I have (sales figures, games in development, gaming industry newsletters) don't indicate this is happening at all.

In the end it all comes down to how you market something, eve is a terribly complicated game but somehow manages to keep it's server population at 30,000+ with 500,000 subscribers. It has great PR and marketing, constantly adds fresh content and is something different and adventagous in a sea of mediocrity.

While eve may be complicated... it's that last bit you said that makes it a success... it an incredibly well designed game in a sea of mediocre WoW clones trying to cash in. On top of it they have been very smart about their marketing.

Project Reality doesn't do too bad for itself either ... The last mod I can remember doing this was Desert Combat for BF1942.

I once recall saying to the mod team that PR should have a goal of being the "DC of BF2" but not at any expense of making a mod we wouldn't ourselves enjoy playing.

But take a look at that history relating to BF42, DC, EA & DICE:
- After working with them since February 2004, in September 2004 DICE acquires Trauma Studios (makers of DC)
- DICE uses Trauma to prototype BF2 elements that DICE then incorporates into BF2; DICE commits to growing the 9 Trauma Studios employees to 20 in the coming months/years
- In November 2004 EA aquires DICE
- In early June 2005 EA disbands Trauma Studios, laying off all employees (including wiggling out of a $200,000 payment they owed)
- In late June 2005 EA releases BF2

So there's an example of how large corporate interests foster and reward innovation. I am sorta glad those dimensions on being "the DC of BF2" never materialized.

egg

[Yeti Pilot]

eggman;931968']I dind't say the tactical fps community is dying... what I said was:



And I probably should have said "good, large scale multiplayer tactical gaming is going to suffer..."

The tactical gaming community will always be a thriving niche. Unfortunately more and more people think that the Rainbox Six series as it is today represents everything tactical gaming needs to be. For me the "virtual battlefield" and large scale multiplayer combined arms aspects of tactical gaming are the most interesting.

And, in my own selfish way of seeing the world hehe.... I see fewer gaming companies really making commitments to that space. I see that largely being driven by economics.. PC gaming is as expensive as Console gaming to produce. And the PC market is shrinking relative to the console market. (please don't try and argue that unless you have sales figures that somehow I don't have access to).

So my take on it is that I don't think leaving it to AAA studios and commercial, share holder driven organizations is going to see the "virtual battlefield" realized. I think a bunch of fanatical whack jobs are going to get that done

Case in point.... look at the Office software space. Nobody was able to "topple" MS Office. Lots of companies went bankrupt trying. But the open source movement with Open Office has made a huge impact on MS Office. You can say the same (to a much larger extent) about the operating systems marketplace.



What facts do you have to support that? The facts I have (sales figures, games in development, gaming industry newsletters) don't indicate this is happening at all.



g

In my opinion this may be to the mass marketing of console's I mean usually when you see a game preview or commercial or even go on a gameing sight like IGN, the first thing you see are Console games thats mainly what games are being made for now sure they might have a PC version but no one markets them except for World of Blowcraft , Another thing that PC games lack today is the constant upgrade in technology it seems that you can have the Top of the line PC today but tommorow something has come out that is better so the new games automatically develope there game around the newest of this which means that your new top of the line PC is already needs to be upgraded to play this new game of unless you like shiat graphics and horrible FPS. -My 2 cents

[space]

I know that some of the DEVs have serious doubts about BF3 ever being released, and on that point, we'll have to agree to differ. But more interesting comments in this interview:

Battlefield 1943 Interview for Xbox 360 - VideoGamer.com

On top of the comments from 4.50 on this:

Viddler.com - Battlefield 1943 Interview with Gordan Van Dyke / Producer - Uploaded by NoobTube



Many people mention that EA are making cutbacks - this is true, but their plans are actually to focus more on successful franchises.

People also make much of the PC market only having 20% of the profits - I think that this thinking is flawed - its comparing the PC vs everything. Its more realistic to compare them on a platform by platform basis I think. In that case ( Im not going to look up figures) but wii vs xbox vs PS3 vs PS2 (still big seller) vs PC - the PC is still holding its own.

I admit that its hard to see where BFBC2 fits into the plan, but I still think we'll hear something about BF3 before the end of the year - if its not moddable, then I will be truly shocked.

[eggman]

BF2142 is also "moddable" as is Half Life 2. But EA/DICE and Valve are worlds apart in their commitment to the mod dev community as an integral part of the business model. Valve is starting to release mods through Steam. EA hasn't released any mod tools for the BF Franchise since August of 2006. And that was released as an unsupported beta. No official mod tools or mod SDK was released for BF2142.

If there IS a BF3, I will be quite surprised if EA does an about face in their business model for supporting the mod community... it may remain as "moddable" as BF2142 (albeit with updated tools for the Frostbite engine). Even then.. because of the new engine... that may actually cause them to not release any mod tools at all.

[Rhino]

BF2142 is also "moddable" as is Half Life 2. But EA/DICE and Valve are worlds apart in their commitment to the mod dev community as an integral part of the business model. Valve is starting to release mods through Steam. EA hasn't released any mod tools for the BF Franchise since August of 2006. And that was released as an unsupported beta. No official mod tools or mod SDK was released for BF2142.

And they have have confirmed that BF Heroes will have NO mod support and they refuse to comment on if BF1943 and BFBC2 and any other future titles they will release will have any mod support.

[eggman]

Actually they have confirmed no mod support in BF43 (can't remember where, but it was an interview with the Producer). BF43 would not be that interesting to mod imo, it's really just a "mini game" to keep the BF franchise in the marketplace (because BF Heroes failed to release when it was supposed to).

[Rhino]

Actually they have confirmed no mod support in BF43 (can't remember where, but it was an interview with the Producer). BF43 would not be that interesting to mod imo, it's really just a "mini game" to keep the BF franchise in the marketplace (because BF Heroes failed to release when it was supposed to).

ah ok and I agree, as for BF Heroes, they delayed its release because of some other game that was coming out quite like theres had a feature they didn't afaik

[space]

To be fair - due to the nature of Heros and BF1943, I wouldn't expect there to be mod support.

BFBC2 could possibly have mod support, but I feel its unlikely - BF3 will most likely have it I think.

I cant help but think that maybe BFBC2 for PC is a red herring, to keep PC players happy until they make an announcement on BF3. Very few details have been released about it. Lets face it, if they announced BF3 and then dropped BFBC2 for PC, I dont think there would be many complaints. Alternatively it could just be a test for frostbite on the PC, in which case BF3 is a long long way off :/

[Yeti Pilot]

hmm I think arma 2 could be used for PR ( so long as arma 2 isnt as buggy as the first one)

Really if you could implemeant a squad system commander system all that good stuff into arma that we love in PR, which im pretty sure you can than we could have a good mod going for ArmA. I mean that in from what I have seen from Arma 1 is that there is no squad system, and the game get's very vehicle based more than It should for example anyone can fly a helicopter or dirve a tank or APC if you could add the kit system where you have to be a pilot to fly, or crewman to drive a tank, and you added the game modes we love today make mapes good for gameplay then maybe ArmA 2 could be for PR. Really just look more at the ArmA engine and see if it is possible to take what we have in PR and transfer it over too ArmA.