[Faction Proposal] Korean People's Army Ground Forces

[Gunners87]

Back to the original point, if Chechens get scopes from "unknown sources", why can't an actual country get scopes from a mutual ally? The whole reason China helped NK during the Korean War was because they were worried about having Americans on their doorsteps. The reason NK and China are not friends now is because China prefers America, but if the two went to war several million fanatical soldiers from Korea could help China alot, especially if given some more modern equipment...

And this is simply assuming they don't have scopes now, because there is no way we'd know considering they're so secretive. Hence the camo BDUs we only recently found out about.

Not sure if the allegation of corruption were true but it sounded like Chechnya had bribed Russian officers to abandon equipment, claim it was captured in battle or destroyed. Just google Russian military corruption and you'll get an idea.
And I think this is where it was hinted by ''unknown sources''. That or Chechnya is being supplied with scopes from a scrupulous Ukraine, or getting unlicensed versions from China and/or MEC.
Mother Russia is a very scary enemy, best to slow her now by supplying her domestic enemies...

[Hresvelgr]

Eh... I really don't like the idea of turning the North Koreans into yet another insurgency faction. We've got the insurgents and Taliban for that, and Hamas I think is coming with Israel in .9 probably. We need more conventional OpFor armies to join China and Iran (in the making and will probably and hopefully overshadow MEC). Also, my impression is that the purpose of the KPA is to assault the South and take it, Seoul being the priority target. Though we should still use your idea for tunnels, possibly useful for a DMZ map where USA/RoK is on the defensive for once. But otherwise I doubt they'll use caches like Taliban or insurgents, the KPA is very conventional. Their main tank would be locally produced T-62 with a T-72 barrel or something, and maybe ERA bricks.

As for other vehicles, yes they could have painted Little-birds. I don't know how they paint their helicopters but if they paint them anything like their tanks they'd have some funky-looking woodland camo. Mi-8 would be their main transport chopper, it's already in game thankfully. MiG-29 should be there, and perhaps MiG-21/23 as a light bomber like the Tornado? Always wanted to see MiG-21 ingame, it was my favorite plane of Battlefield: Vietnam.

The APCs are a thorny issue. I was thinking BTR-60, plus the locally produced VTT-323 instead of BMP. It has a twin 14.5mm turret, with Susong-Po (AT-3 Sagger) missles added to more recent variants. I guess you could have BMP-1 but I'd be sad to see the VTT go. Also might have BRDM-2 recon car.

Anybody know what light transport vehicles the North uses?

Also, some people have suggested T-55 tanks in addition to T-62s for a numerical tank advantage but with weaker tanks. It sounds good, but gameplay wise could often spell doom for the North Korean faction. Servers aren't always full, and because people often go for any available tank they will have fewer infantry and US infantry will be every the Northern tanks can't blowing them up with HATs left and right. The T-55 could only work on a map where the US has not tanks and KPA doesn't have better ones.

[Gunners87]

Eh... I really don't like the idea of turning the North Koreans into yet another insurgency faction. We've got the insurgents and Taliban for that, and Hamas I think is coming with Israel in .9 probably. We need more conventional OpFor armies to join China and Iran (in the making and will probably and hopefully overshadow MEC). Also, my impression is that the purpose of the KPA is to assault the South and take it, Seoul being the priority target. Though we should still use your idea for tunnels, possibly useful for a DMZ map where USA/RoK is on the defensive for once. But otherwise I doubt they'll use caches like Taliban or insurgents, the KPA is very conventional. Their main tank would be locally produced T-62 with a T-72 barrel or something, and maybe ERA bricks.

So North Korea would be represented by their special forces (light infantry), plus armor units containing the T-62/72 hybrid or it's version of the T-80/90?
And I believe most of the tunnels were located behind the DMZ, so there isn't much sense in making a static trench map. I assumed in the successful scenario of a DPRK breakout south of the defensive line, would just result in ROK/US abandoning the DMZ to fall back...

[Gunners87]

Eh... I really don't like the idea of turning the North Koreans into yet another insurgency faction. We've got the insurgents and Taliban for that, and Hamas I think is coming with Israel in .9 probably. We need more conventional OpFor armies to join China and Iran (in the making and will probably and hopefully overshadow MEC). Also, my impression is that the purpose of the KPA is to assault the South and take it, Seoul being the priority target. Though we should still use your idea for tunnels, possibly useful for a DMZ map where USA/RoK is on the defensive for once. But otherwise I doubt they'll use caches like Taliban or insurgents, the KPA is very conventional. Their main tank would be locally produced T-62 with a T-72 barrel or something, and maybe ERA bricks.

As for other vehicles, yes they could have painted Little-birds. I don't know how they paint their helicopters but if they paint them anything like their tanks they'd have some funky-looking woodland camo. Mi-8 would be their main transport chopper, it's already in game thankfully. MiG-29 should be there, and perhaps MiG-21/23 as a light bomber like the Tornado? Always wanted to see MiG-21 ingame, it was my favorite plane of Battlefield: Vietnam.

The APCs are a thorny issue. I was thinking BTR-60, plus the locally produced VTT-323 instead of BMP. It has a twin 14.5mm turret, with Susong-Po (AT-3 Sagger) missles added to more recent variants. I guess you could have BMP-1 but I'd be sad to see the VTT go. Also might have BRDM-2 recon car.

Anybody know what light transport vehicles the North uses?

Also, some people have suggested T-55 tanks in addition to T-62s for a numerical tank advantage but with weaker tanks. It sounds good, but gameplay wise could often spell doom for the North Korean faction. Servers aren't always full, and because people often go for any available tank they will have fewer infantry and US infantry will be every the Northern tanks can't blowing them up with HATs left and right. The T-55 could only work on a map where the US has not tanks and KPA doesn't have better ones.

I'll keep the Abrams for the maps involving the higher end Korean tanks (such as the KPA's version of the T-80/T-90).
It would still be a hard map for KPA, because the T-55 is a slow tank and has an extremely slow reload time. In fact if the T-55 from the Militia faction is being untouched (stat speaking), you'll have the Koreans losing a tank every single time a HAT is reloaded or a TOW is launched.

I think the idea of making DPRK like China (having the best units represented) is a far better idea. But people are wanting that certain niche of a third world military in project reality fighting along conventional lines.

[Hresvelgr]

Yeah, I was going for the higher-end stuff for the NK faction mostly. But you are mistaken, the militia has a T-62, not a T-55 tank. The best NK tank, that T-80/T-90 version you were talking about, is impossible to implement because there are no pictures and all its features are speculation. The best known Northern tank is the Chonma Ho mark V. It is a T-62 but with a 125mm gun in addition to other upgrades.

[charliegrs]

enough with the talking someone start modelling!! {runs to blender website..}

[Gunners87]

Yeah, I was going for the higher-end stuff for the NK faction mostly. But you are mistaken, the militia has a T-62, not a T-55 tank. The best NK tank, that T-80/T-90 version you were talking about, is impossible to implement because there are no pictures and all its features are speculation. The best known Northern tank is the Chonma Ho mark V. It is a T-62 but with a 125mm gun in addition to other upgrades.

We barely have a picture of the Choma Ho and it looks like it was taken by some telescopic camera?
DPRK has been real protective of their military capability, especially infantry wise. I don't think they use the 1950's uniforms in combat, I think that's just ceremonial wear for the parades and border guards.


Anyway I was able to find this on google

Info about this photo? - Military Photos

KPA officer attachment to China (as identified by their KPA markings). Gives us a good idea of camouflage utilized by the top units of the KPA

[charliegrs]

im more curious who those guys in the background are? maybe some kind of eastern european or balkan military personnel?

[Hresvelgr]

We barely have a picture of the Choma Ho and it looks like it was taken by some telescopic camera?
DPRK has been real protective of their military capability, especially infantry wise. I don't think they use the 1950's uniforms in combat, I think that's just ceremonial wear for the parades and border guards.


Anyway I was able to find this on google

Info about this photo? - Military Photos

KPA officer attachment to China (as identified by their KPA markings). Gives us a good idea of camouflage utilized by the top units of the KPA

Yeah, I posted a couple images of those camo patterns a few pages back. As for the known pictures of Chonma Ho, well at least we have an idea of what it looks like.

charliegrs: Yeah, we should start modeling. Though we need a definitive design plan and there are still many disagreements. Then again, we could at least start on what is definitive (AK-74 reskin and RPD). What pistol will we be using? Makarov, CZ-75 (locally produced, might I add), or TT-33? And the whole Zastava/SVD/sniper issue...

[Gunners87]

Yeah, I posted a couple images of those camo patterns a few pages back. As for the known pictures of Chonma Ho, well at least we have an idea of what it looks like.

charliegrs: Yeah, we should start modeling. Though we need a definitive design plan and there are still many disagreements. Then again, we could at least start on what is definitive (AK-74 reskin and RPD). What pistol will we be using? Makarov, CZ-75 (locally produced, might I add), or TT-33? And the whole Zastava/SVD/sniper issue...

The one you posted is also on that link I made. The people who responded seem to think that is a South Korean air soft LARPing as a North Korean
I imagine there's a lot more stuff on the DPRK's military in Korean (including pictures) than there is in English.

[PikminDoctor]

That sounds cool, especially if we get nice tanks

[aperson444]

I'll search up on Google Images.

Here:

That ones funny , but now for the serious ones....



Some of North Korea's tanks.



Some soldiers



One of their MiGs



I also discovered something very interesting: Worker-Peasant Red Guard. it's a militia-type group in North Korea. Could be interesting to have.

[Hresvelgr]

If the Zastava is to be their DMR, then what'll their sniper be? The list of weapons as I think they should be is:

Rifle: Type 88 (AK-74 reskin, plus Type 78 scope for optics) http://www.dragunov.net/scopes/type78nkoreanpso.jpg
Pistol: Baek-Du San (CZ-75)
Automatic Rifle: Type 62 (RPD)
Heavy machine-gun: NSV
Light Anti-Tank: RPG-7
Heavy Anti-tank: RPG-7 tandem warhead? (borrow from Russian mod?)
Anti-Air: SA-7
Marksman: JeoGyeokBoChong? (Zastava?)
Sniper: Mosin-Nagant? (I heard an idea to have SVD be marksman and zastava to be sniper, but the zastava is semi-automatic, and a bit shorter range. Would that disqualify it as a sniper, or be considered asymmetrical balance?)

Tank: Chonma Ho V (T-62 reskin, plus larger gun updated systems and ERA bricks maybe)
IFV: VTT-323 (twin 14.5mm turret plus AT-3 missles, chose over the BMP because wiki states the VTT is the North's main tracked apc)
APC: BTR-60
Recon: BRDM-2 (another idea was to replace the somewhat pointless BRDM with VTT and still have BMP, but that'd mean having three infantry fighting vehicles, unless the BTR was removed instead)
light car: UAZ-469 like the MEC maybe?

Fighter: MiG-29
Close Air Support: Su-25
Fighter-bomber: MiG-21/23
transport heli: Mi-8
light heli: Little Bird
attack heli: Mi-24

Any other suggestions or comments?

[aperson444]

I think the Mosin-Nagant is too outdated for NK.

Probably only for ceremonial reasons. Maybe just get rid of the sniper and add more Marksman kit?

[aperson444]

Sorry for double posting (something weird with the edit button), but I believe that NK uses the RPK more than the RPD. In the Cold War, they got a bunch from the Soviet Union.

[Hresvelgr]

So it's the Zastava then, right? Should be easy to model. Basically an AK-47 with a new scope and ten round magazine. And I guess the no sniper is a good idea. Forces more NK players to get close like in RL they probably would, and hardly anyone but noobs use the kits anyways. Also, I chose RPD over RPK because the RPD is better in the machine-gun role, RPK is just a go between and we should just let only the insurgents have them. Only step now is to find people who can actually mod.

Edit: After looking at more Chonma Ho pics it seems we may have to create a whole new turret. In addition to larger barrel and ERA there's also more armor, smoke grenade launchers, and an external laser rangefinder with night vision camera. Here's the mark 5 we're aiming for: http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-charlie/charlie/chonma-ho_series/chonmaho5_001.jpg
And here's a mark IV, just to get a better angle of the front: http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-charlie/charlie/chonma-ho_series/chonmaho-4/chonmaho4_002.jpgAnd finally a diagram: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Ch%27onma-ho_Render.png/800px-Ch%27onma-ho_Render.png

[General Dragosh]

So it's the Zastava then, right? Should be easy to model. Basically an AK-47 with a new scope and ten round magazine. And I guess the no sniper is a good idea. Forces more NK players to get close like in RL they probably would, and hardly anyone but noobs use the kits anyways. Also, I chose RPD over RPK because the RPD is better in the machine-gun role, RPK is just a go between and we should just let only the insurgents have them. Only step now is to find people who can actually mod.

Edit: After looking at more Chonma Ho pics it seems we may have to create a whole new turret. In addition to larger barrel and ERA there's also more armor, smoke grenade launchers, and an external laser rangefinder with night vision camera. Here's the mark 5 we're aiming for: http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-charlie/charlie/chonma-ho_series/chonmaho5_001.jpg
And here's a mark IV, just to get a better angle of the front: http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-charlie/charlie/chonma-ho_series/chonmaho-4/chonmaho4_002.jpgAnd finally a diagram: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Ch%27onma-ho_Render.png/800px-Ch%27onma-ho_Render.png

Well the Zastava M76 isnt just a AK47 with a scope, it has a longer barrel and has a bigger round - well it kinda uses all sorts of bigger rounds

OPK haz an awesome M76 model

Btw i have the Janes gunz recognition guide - it saiz 7.92x57 mauser and other

[sheggalism]

has a bigger round

Yeah, bigger rounds : 7.92x57 Mauser (or 8x57 ?) !! Bigger than SVD's.

Tank: Chonma Ho V (T-62 reskin, plus larger gun updated systems and ERA bricks maybe)

An upgraded T-62 ? Could be a fair opponent to any modern IFV at least ! (remember old Fools Road, T-62 vs Warrior ? now I'd love to see some Chonma vs Bradley !)

If this faction ever comes to live, I think that map design will be North Korean Army's "most valuable asset" ! (bunkers, tunnels, etc...). It looks like they have a defensive military after all !

EDIT : I've read some articles about it, and NK military offensive doctrine is based on MASS infantry rush with MASS artillery support (with natural defenses on their side : mountains, forests). They would also use MASS deceptive tactics, "SF" sabotage units, and even toxic gas and lethal nerve agent !

[Hresvelgr]

Well, I said it basically looks like an AK with scope and shorter mag. Forgot to add the longer barrel part, but yeah... there you go. Also I'm sure the Chonma Ho could fare well against an Abrams as long as it got the jump on it. At a DMZ that probably wouldn't be the case, but then, how many Abrams does the US have waiting right on the border? Expect tank on tank action more on NK defense maps probably.

So we still need modders. Really badly, might I add. Kinda have none at the moment. I think we all agree they should have light Chinese kits with their new locally made camo patterns, am I right? I was thinking about half of the kits should have those hats from the engineer kit because we see them more often in pictures even with full gear than helmets.

[sheggalism]

Interesting info : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 7/nkor.pdf

So we still need modders. Really badly, might I add.

Can't really help for models. I'm learning BF2 Editor mapping now (and I may use some terrain generator to make a mountainous basis first).