Tanks/Choppers can't cap.

[eggman]

There is a parameter in BF2 called something like MinNrToCapture and you can set this to a minimum number of players to capture a flag.

When I was developing map packs I had most of them set to require 2. Until I realised it doesn't work heh.

As a work around we've since set the cap times much higher. You likely will get spawned upon if you are alone.

As I said we're looking at ways of implementing something to this effect, but not in 0.3.

egg

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

We are jsut saying, if the rules are very clear, people will then act appropriately. If they are told some vague idea that it will take alot of time, many "non team" players will still not co-operate as well.
What would be interesting would be if it required 4 people. This could either give teams a massive kick up the back side OR it would actually cuase many players just to give up!

It is a fine line to balance. We want to give big rewards to team work and not jsut being in a squad, cos co-operation requires skill and effort.
I also belive ardently that it is through carefull kit design, gameplay rules, especially map design and most importantly game mode/ type to improve co-operation between players, altimatly leading to a more enjoyable experience.

[weidel]

Read these points.

The whole point of this is to make it so you can't cap alone or in any vehicles. I don't care if the capture was 1 sec below infinite, you will still have some idiot who will go after it time and time again unless he is forced to capture it with more people in the cap area then it is.

I don't think upping the time does anything but make it harder for a large squad to cap a flag since it basically becomes a nade spam fest when the enemy spans, and hardly any good squads make the flag the first go around.

Instead of increasing flag radius times, make it so you are forces to have at least 3 members on the flag in order to cap it like I said. This way, you are forcing everyone to basically be in a squad without making it manditory. You will also cut down on the lone wolves. Long cap times just give the enemy an advantage in the alread defense advantage AAS. With this method which me and Cat talked about, it will increase teamwork 10 fold, and at the same time cut down on those idiot that buggy rush alone or split from the squad to go off.

And again, it shouldn't be about how long you can last which is basically how it is now with the huge cap time and limited cover, it should be about how your squad cleared the area of enemies, and all secured the area within the flag without having to worry about 3 more enemies spawning in a few seconds later and nade spamming you from no where.

I agree with this post, but I would also like to see larger cap ranges so I and my mates won't have to survive multiple spawns in the middle of a square.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

eggman']There is a parameter in BF2 called something like MinNrToCapture and you can set this to a minimum number of players to capture a flag.

When I was developing map packs I had most of them set to require 2. Until I realised it doesn't work heh.

As a work around we've since set the cap times much higher. You likely will get spawned upon if you are alone.

As I said we're looking at ways of implementing something to this effect, but not in 0.3.

egg

Well, just keep working on a way to try and see if you can get this working. I get spawned upon even if I am with 4-6 people in my squad and just get nade spammed since the cap time is so long and the limited flag cap area.

I was just proposing to up the min number of players to cap a flag to at least 3, maybe 4, and then have it so they can cap the flag a little quicker, but not by a huge amount, instead of just upping spawn time.

The huge spawn time now just benifits the defenders such as on the square in Karkand where they only have to spawn and throw 1-2 nades to get the whole squad.

Again, this is the best way to actually get players to be in squads and work together without having to impliment some kind of force system because you will always get some kind of idiot that will go off on his own or buggy rush, but with this, it tells them to get in a squad or go to another mod.

[eggman]

We are hopefully addressing a couple of the concerns raised in 0.3:
- reducing nade spam capabilities
- increasing flag radius

Once we release, play it and let us know what you think.

And I never suggested we were not listening to what you guys are talking about here, I suggested that we already have some ideas on the go that are along these lines. You comments are kinda coming across a lil argumentative... when we actually agree.

egg

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I am not trying to be arguementative, it just seemed like you guys were focusing more on spawn time as a way to inprove teamwork, and I suggested this as another, possibly better way to do it since spawn time didn't really do much for the game in .25 teamwork wise. But when .30 comes out, we will see how much everything has changed.

[Malik]

The game shouldn't force players to use teamwork, it should make teamwork the sensible option so people do it automatically. If you want teamwork, that's something you organise off the field. There's no need for people to complain to the devs that they've had a hard time thanks to some masochist with a SAW who came to PR for the realistically powerful guns. The fact is, where BF2 was already a potentially good game for team players, PR is now a potentially brilliant game for team players. The raised standards have attracted more skilled players, and although a few lesser players still remain, really that's unavoidable without a password. There's no need to spoonfeed teamwork to everyone, especially at the cost of gameplay.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I said the suggestions made were basically doing that. They are forcing the player to use teamwork to survive without really forcing them i na way. If it is possible, then they would have to join a squad or group up with a couple of people in order to take a flag without buggy rushing it just to get killed.

They can still go around and kill, hand out meds, or snipe without being in a squad, but when they actually want to really help the team out and cap, then they will have to be in a squad and follow the squad leader.

[BigEd88]

fast ropeing from the transport helos would really help (hard to mod I'm guessing, kinda strange they didn't put it in vanilla...probibly somthing do with everyone haveing a parachute) , but as of right now it has to land somwhere to let the troops out safely.

[M.0.D]

so pilots should learn to approach quickly, hover for a second perhaps 1 meter above the ground to let them out an fly on ^^

[Lucractius]

i wish that were sarcasm... but unfortunatly i see far to often, people practicing things like this in vanilla BF2... its pretty awful to think this game has become formulaic in its gamplay so obtuesly. they fixed the blackwhoring, they fixed the Cwhoring and bunnyhopping noob toob users... but whats left is a game where people just give up and go nuts quake style, suicide runs to get as many kills as they can while trying to storm the objective. regardless of if theres a better way.

thank god PR gives some nice reinforcement about what NOT to do ... with its more dangerous guns and longer timeout for being silly and catching enemy bullets.

[Malik]

Exactly. That's how it's done in the real army. If you want to jump, grab the Spec Ops kit, otherwise the driver ought to fly low. I'm not sure about the availability of abseiling cable on helicopters, that's probably the reason it was dropped. Having the MEC and China without this feature would be stacked, giving them it would be unrealistic. And just imagine the teamkills. You fly low and 4 guys on ropes get thrown off and killed. You fail to notice anyone's hanging because of 1st person view, land, get 4 teamkills. DICE clearly figured a feature that can't be used by inexperienced players shouldn't be added. It makes sense.