I hate "black hole" squads.

[Ace42]

If you've played with pick-up groups in publics, you've prolly seen it. Squad number 1, full of people, one's a sniper, one's driving an APC, one's trying to take a chopper, the squad-leader's got a grenadier kit and no mic, there's six lone-wolfers in the squad, and even though some of them would prolly be happy to squad-up, go VOIP, and play tactically, it's not possible within that squad. Squad 2, exactly the same, full of 1-man armies just squaded up for the limited kits. Squad 3, empty - even though the squad leader's doing a decent enough job, he made the squad mid-round and no-one's going to join him; squad 4 or 5 is named "chopper" or "armor" but isn't actually in either of those because someone grabbed their asset, and they're camping the main. Then you're left with "Arapahoe VOIP" + "Cymraeg VOIP", each with two men a piece in them.

So, you form a squad "Eng VOIP", maybe even sweeten it with "Eng VOIP+teamwork", and then you find yourself going "hmmm, great, the three unassigned are prolly AFK, and everyone is already in a useless squad, so aren't going to join mine on the off-chance that I actually know what I am doing..."

It really sucks that the majority of players gravitate towards the top squads, only join 'big' squads (for the limited kits, for the rallies, etc), irrespective of their tactical position on the map or their effectiveness in combat, and are generally pretty complacent about teaming up; and most of it is down to selfish squad-leaders not disbanded a squad they have no interest in leading. If I have slackers in my squad, you can guarantee they'll get kicked so they can form a helicopter / APC / transport / whatever squad of their own.

[kf_reaper]

i know ware your coming from. today on a full server my squad was the only squad doing there job all other squads were lone wolfs out there. it was like shooting fish in a bareal.

[Ace42]

It's getting to the point where I feel obliged to be the first person to make a squad, just so I can fill it up with people, wait about a minute into the round so that the APC, VOIP, etc etc squads are up and running, and then forcefully kick everyone from the squad, leave the squad myself, and oblige them to actually LOOK at what squad they want to join...

And seriously, if someone creates a squad before the "danger zone" of triggering the squad bug has passed, you should KNOW they're too green to lead and avoid that squad like the plague!

[FOX2PRO]

Absolutely. I really despise the squads that don't play like they should.
Two snipers in a single squad, a 'pilot' squad full of reg kits. Worst are the people who join squad's for a specific kit. Like sniper. Seriously, I have no idea why everyone is fascinated with that kit.

[Fluffywuffy]

Players are hardcoded.

[Ace42]

Players are hardcoded.

Hence this not being in the "suggestions" thread

[Cobhris]

Well I only join big squads due to the fact that a 2 man infantry squad is useless for anything other than a sniper team. You need at least 3 people for a functioning infantry squad, because any less than that means no officer, no building, no rallies, no kits, nothing.

But I hate when I run into squads like that on PR. It's a symptom of the mass immigration of BF2 noobs to PR (the ones who made their BF2 careers on dolphin diving, solo choppering, jet whoring, and monopolizing the supply drops as a sniper camping the enemy main)

[Ace42]

Well I only join big squads due to the fact that a 2 man infantry squad is useless for anything other than a sniper team. You need at least 3 people for a functioning infantry squad, because any less than that means no officer, no building, no rallies, no kits, nothing.

So, aside from the initial two six-man squads, how will you EVER get a 3-man squad or more? See, this is a symptom of the problem. If no-one takes a bite of the tough-tater and get's the squad to 2men, there'll not be anyone in a position to take it up to THREE men and get the rally point up, etc.

However, possibly making the officer kit available to smaller squads so that the officer's READY for doing his duties when someone jumps into his squad, rather than having to trek all the way to a pick-up point for the kit before he can get on with it, would help alleviate this somewhat?

[Wartz]

I don't even try to get people to play like a team by joining a squad and ordering them around. Instead, I make my own squad with a buddy or 2, grab combat engie and start building FOBs in good spots so the Zombies accidentally do something useful. I also am always working behind enemy lines, gathering intel, blowing up enemy FOBs, knifing rallies, mining up roads and destroying as many vehicles as possible.

1 guy(who knows what hes doing) armed with HAT/2nd combat engie/manning spandrel + me can often account for 40-100 tickets worth of assets and also help "guide" the flow of Zombies towards something useful.

If a pubbie or 2 join my squad, that's good too.

[Cobhris]

So, aside from the initial two six-man squads, how will you EVER get a 3-man squad or more? See, this is a symptom of the problem. If no-one takes a bite of the tough-tater and get's the squad to 2men, there'll not be anyone in a position to take it up to THREE men and get the rally point up, etc.

However, possibly making the officer kit available to smaller squads so that the officer's READY for doing his duties when someone jumps into his squad, rather than having to trek all the way to a pick-up point for the kit before he can get on with it, would help alleviate this somewhat?

People should fill a squad completely before making a new one, and then, if there aren't enough people so every inf squad has at least 3 guys, SLs should kick ppl and send them to the undermanned squads.

[TheParadoX]

This thread raises another problem I had to deal with:

This stupid habit of making specific squads that are supposed to do only what their name states. The initial idea isn't even that bad, it kind of makes sense, but the problem is that these rules get abused. On sone american servers, you even get kicked if you're not in the "right squad". I hate that, but after 3 or 4am, the european servers are empty and if I want to play I have no choice.

Yersterday I joigned an american insurgency 24/7 server where the squads are not reset after the map reload. So there were squads like "sniper", "apc", "bradley", "voip tw" etc. When I took the sniper rifle (because with my european ping this is pretty much all I can do decently (and driving)), the guys from the sniper squad started whining about not getting the sniper rifle. As I was laying on the roof, they kept pushing me around, insulting me and annoying me. Finally I got teamkilled without any apology. Well done, gyus from the EC clan - very mature, and really helps getting over all the negative prejudice we have about americans here in europe

So here's my question: How the hell are people who just connected supposed to have a fair chance to get the sniper/apc/bradley/other if they feel like it ? I used to make fun of those servers where the "squad name = your activity" rule is enforced. Someone recently called for a medic, but I told him I couldn't revive him because I wasn't part of the medic squad Same thing for the teamkilling squad, the "let's set a rally point" and even the "construction worker with shovels" squad.

OK I am exagerating, but you get what I mean.

[Ace42]

This stupid habit of making specific squads that are supposed to do only what their name states. The initial idea isn't even that bad, it kind of makes sense, but the problem is that these rules get abused.

I could go either way. Assets are of great importance in PR, and someone who's going to squander them can really harm a team. Pre-made squads with a specific role and objective in mind really help teamplay.

That said, people hogging/hoarding kits / assets sucks as well, if people can't play with kits in real combat situations, they're not going to get good with them.

It's a crying shame there's no way for people to use the squad-management menu to merely rename squads without quitting the squad, as that means assetless redundant squads wouldn't have to disband, etc for the sake of clarity.

[Skodz]

I guess everyone playing PR enough understand what your saying but unfortunenately, players are hardcoded! :/

[.blend]

Problem is, everyone does it. I've seen full sqs full of admins or clannies, entitled "Pilot" or "CAS". When i try to make a real air sq, with only me as "Tower/Ground Control/Spotter" and two pilots(Kashan), the full pilot sq argues theyre just wasting a bit of time til stuff spawns.

[Flynn1982]

I normally only play with my mates on voip, but if there not around i do go and just join a pub squad. Unfortunately most the time "eng voip tw" are always full so i join bravo squad for example and 7 out of ten time it goes down somethink like this, "hi all sl what kit would u like me to have?" No answer "guys u go mic's?" long pause "yes", me "so sl whats the plan?" long pause or no reply at all. This drives me insane iam spoilt a bit having great tactical games with my mates most the time, but when this happens alot just with ramdom squad it dose my head in i dont see the point in playing pr if your not going to play as a team.

[Menigmand]

most the time "eng voip tw" are always full so i join bravo squad for example and 7 out of ten time it goes down somethink like this, "hi all sl what kit would u like me to have?" No answer "guys u go mic's?" long pause "yes", me "so sl whats the plan?" long pause or no reply at all.

I had the exact same experience, so I finally concluded that I would have to make my own squad.

Usually it works well being friendly and communicative, and while some people will filter through the squad - the ones looking for the same kind of gameplay will stick around.

While being a SL myself is taxing, I find it much better than looking four hours for that great squad where the SL is dedicated without being a jerk.

[Thermis]

It's been my experience that you can just kick the problem players out of your squad if need be. I rarely lead squads just full of pub members anymore but every now and then I'll get one or two in my squad in the open slots not filled by clanmates. If they dont follow orders I just kick them.
I'd suggest you get on the mumble servers provided by so'me of the more popular servers and play in those squads. They are almost always more team oriented than the average pub squad, and we sometimes tend to stack teams which isn't fair, but it is lost of fun to wipe the floor with the opfor.

[R.J.Travis]

its truly the lack of squad leader's no one likes to do it anymore if the jobs to hard quit ): its just as rare to get a commander and a squad leader ): I fiend my self squad leading now i do a good job but I like to play a supporting role in my squad AT GL or SAW