Pilot Kit change

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Alex6714
Posts: 3900
Joined: 2007-06-15 22:47

Re: To resolve the Pilot kit "problem"

Post by Alex6714 »

Cassius wrote:Also admins could enfore that the pilot kit is not requested to empty the pistol clip. The armament should reflect real life though, do they even get spare clips ?
In real life a British Apache pilot will get a pistol + L85 carbine + a bag with whatever he wants usefullwise (mostly) in a section in the helicopter, IE flare, medic kit, ammo etc.

Jet pilots iirc only have a pistol.
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Koroush47
Posts: 268
Joined: 2009-02-16 15:00

Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Koroush47 »

Caboosehatesbabies wrote:I guess I just don't get it.

I just can't get my head around why pilots absolutely NEED a pistol.

Can you please explain your reasoning again Koroush47?

From what I can gather the reason you're stating is that they should in PR because they do in RL. Ok, that is true. In RL a pilot would carry a pistol. But in RL he only has 1 life and the military has spent tens of thousands of dollars and years training him.

My argument against giving them a pistol is that it facilitates the ticket wasting paradrops.

Your argument in rebuttal to mine is that the paradrop is not an effective strategy, correct?

You're overlooking the fact that people don't CARE if it is not effective, they just wanna feel cool doing it.

I donno, I think the benefits of no pistol outweigh the detriments, I guess I just believe that if you were doing your job right as a pilot, you wouldn't need a pistol.
You don't understand because you don't fly around on PR, Flying is what some people do all the time. All they do is pilot a helicopter.

Remember this game isn't played because it boring, it's played because its fun. It's called a game for a reason, fun.

Only pilots understand this, when you are shot down and you survive... Getting executed by some enemy is NOT fun. Don't say that "if you are a good pilot doing your job you won't get shot down" Nobody is perfect. The point of this game is to have a realistic AND fun experience of modern conflicts. Having to run for your life and using unusual tactics for getting back to the airbase aswell as being able to fight back is fun. When i get shot down these days either by a AA or 50 cal... I can honestly say that i have never had fun while on the ground and and neither have i ever survived. There is almost no point of ejecting anymore. You WILL die, you'll be better off just crashing and then reaspawning.

It's a big challenge, the pistol makes it alot more fun.

Also another thing that i was thinking was: Developers should never ever take content away from a game when there is a problem. Instead of taking away the pistol from the pilot kit for example, they could of found simple ways to fix the problems.

Most of these issues that were brought up were very minor, and they could of been fixed very very simply.

Your argument of airdropping seems to be the only major problem you have with the pistol, first of all i said that it shouldn't be that big a deal anymore because the pistol isn't a cannon like it use to be. And they could just limit the number of pilots in a single heli to like 2 or something. You don't need 8 pilots in one heli.
TayloR016 wrote:I thin kits pretty cool the fact that they have no pistol or knife.. adds to the challenge if you get shot down. But even some of you saying at least a knife isnt that just bringing back the tk factor?

Teamkilling: Don't even tell me that the pistol was the main cause of teamkilling for choppers. I fly all the time, and I've been killed in a number of ways. I'll list them.

1. Guy is waiting for a chopper, he sees me running toward it. He requests a kit with a weapon in it at the crates and shoots me, then picks his pilot kit up again and takes my chopper.

2. (this one actually happened yesterday) A Squad wants the helicopter, one of the squadies shoots the pilot already inside and the squads pilot takes the chopper.

3. On the maps with cars and helis on the same level: A pilot gets in a car and runs another pilot running to the chopper to get there faster, and kill the pilot that is trying to get the chopper.

These things i see everyday, either there is an admin or there isn't to deal with it. Either way.. removing the pistol will NOT stop teamkilling. Pistol removed for teamkilling is not a valid argument at all.

When the pistol was taken out you guys didn't think of all the normal pilots that don't teamkill and don't use stupid tactics like paradroping. The pilots pistol is not my main point I'm trying to make, but my greater point is that: Devs should never remove content when there are simple ways to fix them, it takes away from the diversity of the game.
ReadMenace
Posts: 2567
Joined: 2007-01-16 20:05

Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by ReadMenace »

Koroush47 wrote:
*SNIP*

Also another thing that i was thinking was: Developers should never ever take content away from a game when there is a problem. Instead of taking away the pistol from the pilot kit for example, they could of found simple ways to fix the problems.

Most of these issues that were brought up were very minor, and they could of been fixed very very simply.

*SNIP*

The pilots pistol is not my main point I'm trying to make, but my greater point is that: Devs should never remove content when there are simple ways to fix them, it takes away from the diversity of the game.
What are these simple ways that they can fix the problems?

-REad
Rudd
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Rudd »

Removal is the simpliest solution I can think of tbh haha :D
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Koroush47
Posts: 268
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Koroush47 »

ReadMenace wrote:What are these simple ways that they can fix the problems?

-REad
Teamkilling... has no solution, it will always happen.

It even happens when the pistol is gone.

As for the paratrooping.. I already said a way that they could make it impossible to do that in my earlier post. Actually take time to read it next time.
Tomato-Rifle
Posts: 2091
Joined: 2007-12-31 22:24

Re: To resolve the Pilot kit "problem"

Post by Tomato-Rifle »

Tirak wrote:We're talking about a pilot here. To get to ground, he has to paradrop, which is slow and highly visible, then he's got a bright white helmet and minimal camouflage. If you're getting taken out by that, you deserve it.

I know..
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mp5punk
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2008-07-03 22:18

Re: To resolve the Pilot kit "problem"

Post by mp5punk »

i like the idea of 2 people being in the front only being pilots cause yea no infantry sits in the front cockpit.
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ReadMenace
Posts: 2567
Joined: 2007-01-16 20:05

Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by ReadMenace »

Koroush47 wrote:Teamkilling... has no solution, it will always happen.

It even happens when the pistol is gone.

As for the paratrooping.. I already said a way that they could make it impossible to do that in my earlier post. Actually take time to read it next time.
Out to make friends are we?

You only provided one 'simple solution' which was:
Koroush47 wrote:And they could just limit the number of pilots in a single heli to like 2 or something.
Which the only way I could see them doing this would be, prevent players with pilot kits from being in passenger seats via death.

Your other suggestion was that they should keep the pistol, as YOU will continue to be team killed anyway. That's an excellent solution.

-REad
bloodthirsty_viking
Posts: 1664
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Re: To resolve the Pilot kit "problem"

Post by bloodthirsty_viking »

they will adapt=P
give them rambo guns with this idea, and the helo will land and all will choose it=P

could you make it random, like every 7th pilot request gets a pistol?
then it would stop the paradropers becuase most peaple would not have the kit and would have to wait 2 min to request another
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CodeRedFox
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by CodeRedFox »

Threads merged...keep it in one thread guys.
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Maverick
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Maverick »

some of you forget to realize, that killing with a pistol, is kinda hard,
Destroying Cache Under Heavy Fire


Somewhere in that vid, I use a Pistol and I kill 2 guys, but the third one survives

Destroying Cache Part 2

Part 2 if any of you wanna watch =)
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ReadMenace
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Joined: 2007-01-16 20:05

Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by ReadMenace »

Maverick wrote:some of you forget to realize, that killing with a pistol, is kinda hard,
Destroying Cache Under Heavy Fire


Somewhere in that vid, I use a Pistol and I kill 2 guys, but the third one survives

Destroying Cache Part 2

Part 2 if any of you wanna watch =)
Maverick, you throttling those insurgents (while impressive) I think only compounds why the Pilot should not have a pistol, or knife. If you're downed as a pilot, your primary focus should be Escape & Evasion, not kill kill kill.

-REad
CodeRedFox
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by CodeRedFox »

LOL I think Maverick just knifed himself in the back with those. :-D
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Koroush47
Posts: 268
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Koroush47 »

ReadMenace wrote:Out to make friends are we?

You only provided one 'simple solution' which was:


Which the only way I could see them doing this would be, prevent players with pilot kits from being in passenger seats via death.

Your other suggestion was that they should keep the pistol, as YOU will continue to be team killed anyway. That's an excellent solution.

-REad
What are you talking about? I said there IS NO solution to teamkilling. Even when the pistols are gone it still happens. So taking it away to eliminate teamkilling was not a good idea.
That's no solution buddy.
cplgangster wrote:right let me get this straight 6 people to a squad right. Well that means 2 left over to take up the 2 front seats unless you have a lone wolf or a random guy that got killed and no RP was set then whats the problem with them 2 seats being pilot only. Explain how this is taking up space that is not there?
I know this isn't answering your question, but just to clarify..
What i meant was that only two (OR ONE) pilots are allowed inside the entire aircraft. So that when more pilots try to come in (paradroper) they will be denied access. As in the black screen coming and saying something like "Only 1 (or 2) pilots to a transport heli" And then they will be slayed if they stay in for too long. Just like the same squad thing for the attack choppers.
ReadMenace wrote:Maverick, you throttling those insurgents (while impressive) I think only compounds why the Pilot should not have a pistol, or knife. If you're downed as a pilot, your primary focus should be Escape & Evasion, not kill kill kill.

-REad
Wait what?

He first of all wasn't a pilot. He was a Squadleader. Secondly maverick is a one of a kind player. He is very good. And from what i saw seeing those insurgents weren't very good at the game either. He literally walked right past one and they didn't notice.

Get a pro and and give him a pistol, then make him fight a bunch of nubs on a roof. AS you saw he only killed 2 guys.

Pro vs noobs.

Now most of the time pilots aren't that good, And if you want to go "rambo" wouldn't a saw or something be a more appropriate weapon?

See ramboing isn't a problem with the pilot kit. It was paradroping which was the major one. And if they limit the heli to one pilot per heli.. we wouldn't have this issue.
Last edited by Koroush47 on 2009-02-21 01:03, edited 1 time in total.
ReadMenace
Posts: 2567
Joined: 2007-01-16 20:05

Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by ReadMenace »

Koroush47 wrote:What are you talking about? I said there IS NO solution to teamkilling. Even when the pistols are gone it still happens. So taking it away to eliminate teamkilling was not a good idea.
That's no solution buddy.
Right, and you used that as an argument for keeping the pistol.
Koroush47 wrote:Teamkilling... has no solution, it will always happen.
It's a pretty weak argument for bringing back weapons for pistols...
Koroush47 wrote: Wait what?

He first of all wasn't a pilot. He was a Squadleader. Secondly maverick is a one of a kind player. He is very good. And from what i saw seeing those insurgents weren't very good at the game either. He literally walked right past one and they didn't notice.

Now most of the time pilots aren't that good, And if you want to go "rambo" wouldn't a saw or something be a more appropriate weapon?

See ramboing isn't a problem with the pilot kit. It was paradroping which was the major one. And if they limit the heli to one pilot per heli.. we wouldn't have this issue.


Yes, I realize he had an Officers kit.. Maybe you should have READ HIS POST. :lol:
Maverick wrote:some of you forget to realize, that killing with a pistol, is kinda hard,
He was using that video as evidence of the pistol being not as effective as it was in previous versions, while it is a video of him throttling two insurgents with a pistol (Pistol being the important part here, as we are talking about them in addition to pilots.) , albeit they were clearly dumbfounded by the whirlybirds. Individual player skill should not be brought into the equation, some players are going to be better than others; clearly if Maverick were a downed Pilot (Who had a pistol) he would clearly have little problem upgrading to a better kit in the field; on the other hand, if he had no weapon (As it is currently,) he might be more focused on escaping and evading the enemy, as a downed pilot should.

-REad
CodeRedFox
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by CodeRedFox »

A problem I have always seen is this:

Pilot ejects, pistols some guy not looking and now has that guys kits....and hes still behind lines. Why return to base when you now have a weapon to fight the enemy.

Remove the ability to kill and the pilot HAS to RTB or suicide, which will punish him. A tanker shouldn't have to worry about a enemy heavy AT falling into enemy pilot hands.

Its about as simple as that and one reason why we made the choice.
Last edited by CodeRedFox on 2009-02-21 06:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Pariel
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Pariel »

Any way to make it so he can't pick up any enemy kits?

So, like a civvy, he picks up a kit with a weapon (although only enemy kits, in his case, otherwise he's gonna be stuck doing nothing unless he gets another aircraft), he dies.
CodeRedFox
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by CodeRedFox »

Sure but it still doesn't stop the pilot from going the wrong direction which happens way more then the good players. Still a fan of keeping the kit in game until its picked back up. But the engine wont allow kits to stay forever.

The downed pilots only mission is to stay hidden and RTB and that's what we've done.
Last edited by CodeRedFox on 2009-02-21 02:53, edited 1 time in total.
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"apcs, like dogs can't look up" - Dr2B Rudd
Maverick
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Re: Pilot Kit change

Post by Maverick »

I'm not against this, nor am I with this, maybe give the Pilot like only 5 shots, or 3, maybe? as you saw, the pistols DO less damage, there was no way I would be using my M16 how close those hostiles were =) If you get down, you desserver to be shot imho, because you crashed, or died in your aircraft that you were operating.

Oh yes and Koroush47, They DID see me, I think it just took them a while to figure out that I was at the cache, and wasn't expecting me to be at the state I was, however, the Pistol, givin 3-5 shots only, if you count the number of shots i took on those 2 insurgents, and then the rest on that last insurgent,(shot him in his gut, didn't kill)

User given infraction for inappropriate post content. Racial epiphets are not permitted on these forums. -M.
Last edited by Maverick on 2009-03-24 15:21, edited 3 times in total.
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