even with "i need medic" only message(as it right now) sometimes whole chat window get completely spammed, if you add back nearly all shouts it will be spammed most of the timeCongratulations on not reading my posts and missing the point completely
Wrong. If the reason for removal was part of the "HUD = unrealistic, ditch" purge, then ALL not some of the messages would've gone.Tirak wrote:Part of the removal was also to remove as many elements of the HUD as possible. One of these elements was many of these chat messages.
Wrong. People won't be saying "thank-you" or "Grenade!" or "medic here!" randomly just for the sake of it. You are merely moving a portion (not everyone will be using binds rather than using VOIP which some people prefer) the text from VOIP/Mumble/TS to SQUAD chat, which cuts down on VOIP spam significantly. Furthermore, as you will only be seeing YOUR squad's usage, you will not be getting the 32 people's messages a la vBF2, a completely different state of affairs - a totally different order of magnitude.And then people will spam the Squad chat channel.
In your previous post:Where have I argued otherwise. Of course PR uses VOIP/Mumble/TS, that's possibly one of the central features of the game. I have not, nor will I ever, say otherwise.
If you concede that VOIP / Mumble / TS was barely used in vBF2, then the fact that they were "available" is irrelevant. In PR, unlike vBF2, they are predominate, and that changes the circumstances, making my answer perfectly valid, thank you.If so, not a good answer, all these options were available for vBF2 but it was removed from PR anyway.
Indeed, for reasons that are no longer valid, as I said. Feel free to keep repeating that there's an already suggested thread, I am aware of it's existence and have been since .6. I'll continue to point out why that's a thought-terminating cliché.Until such time as you do use them, you will keep getting a "knee jerk" reaction because your idea has already been suggested and shot down.
Poppycock. "I need a medic" is spammed because it puts nice little icons up for medics et al to see in game. Much in the same way that "Contact report" used to be spammed because it put up nice little icons for where the enemy was. The fact that it is still in game, whereas the ones I listed offer NO benefit for spamming whatsoever (unlike medic and contact), is all the more reason why the others should be reintroduced.even with "i need medic" only message(as it right now) sometimes whole chat window get completely spammed, if you add back nearly all shouts it will be spammed most of the time
Indeed, everything anyone dislikes about vBF2, or earlier versions of this mod, were "their problem." Which is why they made suggestions, some were implemented, and the game evolved into the current version of PR. Fortunately, none of these people were dissuaded by people with nothing constructive to add who simply went "it's your problem."and if you cant memorize meaning of ~6-10 shouts per team, switch on english VO only, dont want? your problem
Have you ever actually played on public?People won't be saying "thank-you" or "Grenade!" or "medic here!" randomly just for the sake of it
You underestimate the idiocy of poeple.Ace42 wrote: Wrong. People won't be saying "thank-you" or "Grenade!" or "medic here!" randomly just for the sake of it. You are merely moving a portion (not everyone will be using binds rather than using VOIP which some people prefer) the text from VOIP/Mumble/TS to SQUAD chat, which cuts down on VOIP spam significantly. Furthermore, as you will only be seeing YOUR squad's usage, you will not be getting the 32 people's messages a la vBF2, a completely different state of affairs - a totally different order of magnitude.
You misinterpret. I said both options were still there, not whether or not they were used. Comprehension fail.In your previous post:
If you concede that VOIP / Mumble / TS was barely used in vBF2, then the fact that they were "available" is irrelevant. In PR, unlike vBF2, they are predominate, and that changes the circumstances, making my answer perfectly valid, thank you.
Nothing has changed. You simply refuse to accept that the reasons then are still valid now.Indeed, for reasons that are no longer valid, as I said. Feel free to keep repeating that there's an already suggested thread, I am aware of it's existence and have been since .6. I'll continue to point out why that's a thought-terminating cliché.
People can spam VOIP as much as they spam chat channels, splitting the spam is much more manageable.Tirak wrote:You underestimate the idiocy of poeple.
Either you deliberately brought up a red-herring argument, which is intellectually dishonest; or you need to take a big step backwards and think about the point you're trying to make. It doesn't matter if they were there or not if, in practice, they were not being used. What matters is that, unlike before, they are NOW being used, which NOW changes the volume of traffic in either medium. Feel free to re-read my posts until you grasp what I am saying and have a "comprehension success".You misinterpret. I said both options were still there, not whether or not they were used. Comprehension fail.
Except all the things I've listed and that you have singularly failed to rebut...Nothing has changed.
Maybe if you refuted even a SINGLE thing I said, you might be more convincing...You simply refuse to accept that the reasons then are still valid now.
Exclusively. If someone in your squad is being a bind nuisance, you can squad-kick them just as easily as if they were intentionally singing down their mic over VOIP. In practice, I've seen neither.Have you ever actually played on public?
None of us are, which is a shame, as it does make a lot of this thread speculative and rather meaningless. I am pretty sure it is possible solely because the "Medic!" bind used to be team-wide in vBF IIRC, and now it's squad-only. However, I may well be mistaken. I'm kinda surprised that people against the proposal are only concentrating on non-arguments rather than something concrete like this TBH...[R-DEV]Chuc wrote: While I'm not totally versed in how the HUD works, I'm really not sure keeping commands within squad-based chat is actually possible. If someone can prove me wrong, then by all means.
And again: People will spam the channel. Fewer spammers and smacktards have Mics. And how often have you sat waiting at the start of the round trying to pay attention to the SL and people spam Yes/No. Now you want to clutter up the screen, when occasionally there are good players with no mics who communicate exclusively through squad chat. Yet you just want to make sure "Thank You" is written in the corner because you can't say it yourself or be content with them being able to hear you.Ace42 wrote:Because in vBF2 it was team-wide, not squad-channel specific; and because in vBF2 and in PREVIOUS versions of PR, spamming contact reports was vital for highlighting enemy positions on maps, which no longer applies to PR. And because in vBF2 *ALL* chat binds were spammed, so the effect was cumulative. I am proposing only a handful, which reduces the number of comments available, and thus the total spam available. These are the primary reasons.
VOIP / Mumble / TS use is MUCH more prevalent in both PR in general, and in this version in specific, than in vBF2 - if you were not being deliberately obstinate, you'd admit this. So that is a tertiary reason.
I already stated all of this in more than one post. Please try to read my post and think about its contents before coming up with a knee-jerk retort. I am getting tired of repeating myself.
The SQUAD channel, where they can be booted.Tirak wrote:And again: People will spam the channel.
And you've done a poll on this? What's your source? Personally, I don't squad up with "smacktards" anyway. Neither should you TBH.Fewer spammers and smacktards have Mics.
None. I do see people getting INVITE messages to join squads, and using the "yes/no" buttons to auto-join or to not join these teams. That's not spamming though. It's also a non-argument, as I don't recall saying "yes / no" should be added to the list. And your SL should be booting people abusing binds jsut like he should be booting people abusing VOIP.And how often have you sat waiting at the start of the round trying to pay attention to the SL and people spam Yes/No.
So instead of "cluttering up squad chat" you'd rather they clutter up VOIP? Brilliant piece of reasoning there...Now you want to clutter up the screen, when occasionally there are good players with no mics who communicate exclusively through squad chat. Yet you just want to make sure "Thank You" is written in the corner because you can't say it yourself or be content with them being able to hear you.
Bzzt, wrong. Because the chat is less obtrusive than talking over people with VOIP. If you prefer the "spam" in VOIP, fine, that's your preference. I don't.Yet you just want to make sure "Thank You" is written in the corner because you can't say it yourself or be content with them being able to hear you.
Please don't lie to me, it makes you seem like an *** and me like a fool for listening. You didn't address them before, otherwise I would've answered them like I just did above. It's a matter of public record for anyone viewing the thread to see what you have or haven't said. When you make salient points, I will acknowledge them - there is plenty of room for debate in this topic. You, however, have decided to constrict your position to fallacious non-arguments, and as such I am yet to be convinced.=I'm addressing them again so that maybe you will be able to understand this time instead of having a knee jerk reaction that anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong
And on servers with no squad lock, they can rejoinAce42 wrote:The SQUAD channel, where they can be booted.
Because every time a smacktard joined the squad and TKed us, they never once used voip.And you've done a poll on this? What's your source? Personally, I don't squad up with "smacktards" anyway. Neither should you TBH.
People abuse the binds. If you haven't run into this, count yourself lucky, as it happens all to often when I play.None. I do see people getting INVITE messages to join squads, and using the "yes/no" buttons to auto-join or to not join these teams. That's not spamming though. It's also a non-argument, as I don't recall saying "yes / no" should be added to the list. And your SL should be booting people abusing binds jsut like he should be booting people abusing VOIP.
Voip Convorsation.So instead of "cluttering up squad chat" you'd rather they clutter up VOIP? Brilliant piece of reasoning there...
Again, the second part deals with the fact that the commorose command is still audible. I guarantee you that if you use that, the medic will understand.Bzzt, wrong. Because the chat is less obtrusive than talking over people with VOIP. If you prefer the "spam" in VOIP, fine, that's your preference. I don't.
I answered them, it's a matter of public record. You don't read them because you don't want to. Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, any argument that isn't a full paragraph isn't worth reading. Face it mate, you're the *** here.Please don't lie to me, it makes you seem like an *** and me like a fool for listening. You didn't address them before, otherwise I would've answered them like I just did above. It's a matter of public record for anyone viewing the thread to see what you have or haven't said. When you make salient points, I will acknowledge them - there is plenty of room for debate in this topic. You, however, have decided to constrict your position to fallacious non-arguments, and as such I am yet to be convinced.
Same with VOIP abusers.Tirak wrote:And on servers with no squad lock, they can rejoin
Well how scientific... Remind me to use this method for evaluating my next pharmaceutical field test. Why not count yourself *unlucky*?Because every time a smacktard joined the squad and TKed us, they never once used voip.
People abuse the binds. If you haven't run into this, count yourself lucky, as it happens all to often when I play.
You're missing the bit where the squad-leader is giving orders, another player's trying to report a contact, that SLer's getting the commander trying to talk at him, and there's a squad full of mumblers right next to you as well. All the time your sound has been faded by the game so that everyone in the squad, irrespective of position, can hear your pleasantries, muffling the sounds of footsteps or gunfire they might be listening out for.Voip Convorsation.
Medic: Alright mate, you're good
You :Thanks.
Ditto if you use mumble...Using the voice commands could very possibly give away your position.
Commorose:
Non-argument. Your solution in your first post was to use English voice overs tick box. This doesn't magically stop the enemy from hearing you. Stop changing the goalposts.Pretty much the same length, except ones silent. And even if they don't speak arabic, they probably get what you're trying to say
However, the commo rose command doesn't muffle your entire squads sound, and is only audible to people close by.Again, the second part deals with the fact that the commorose command is still audible.
Re-read the thread, then. You've said nothing which I haven't refuted clearly, concisely, with indisputable logic.I answered them, it's a matter of public record.
If I didn't read them, how come I have replied to every single point you've made, and soundly, simply, and with impeccable logic refuted it as absolute unsubstantiated tosh?You don't read them because you don't want to.
Unlike you, I based my arguments on facts and logic. To disagree with those is "wrong"; the fact that they support my argument is purely coincidental. But, if it's easier for you to ignore the numerous facts and arguments laid out above and think my sound refutation of the non-arguments put forward is solely down to some sort of personal grudge or ego trip - that's fine. If I found myself made to look like a buffoon and my beliefs shown to be ridiculous, I'd prolly launch a childish ad hominem against the victor too.Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong,
Brevity is the sole of wit. I was judging your arguments based on the content, not the quantity.any argument that isn't a full paragraph isn't worth reading.
Naturally I'm the ***. I'm disagreeing with the bandwagon jumpers, the irrational vBF2 loathers, the very status quo. And I'm doing so in a highbrow and highly effective manner. That makes me public enemy number 1. Feel free to continue burning this heretic.Face it mate, you're the *** here.
Which are far less frequent, even if you disagree with my method of gathering information.Ace42 wrote:Same with VOIP abusers.
Sure, why not. Problem still exists even if you do not run into it.Well how scientific... Remind me to use this method for evaluating my next pharmaceutical field test. Why not count yourself *unlucky*?
Because hearing "Yes sir" "Yes" "Affirmative" "Yes" "No" Negative" for two minutes straight at the beginning of the round will only be worse as all the messages clutter up the chat box.And how can they abuse the binds when they're *removed* ?
Then why are you wasting time you could be using to identify a threat to say thanks? By your example, you're just as bad because everyone can hear you say thank you on the commorose and now you're cluttering the chatbox.You're missing the bit where the squad-leader is giving orders, another player's trying to report a contact, that SLer's getting the commander trying to talk at him, and there's a squad full of mumblers right next to you as well. All the time your sound has been faded by the game so that everyone in the squad, irrespective of position, can hear your pleasantries, muffling the sounds of footsteps or gunfire they might be listening out for.
So why are you using mumble if you think there's enemies in earshot?Ditto if you use mumble...
Multi faceted argument. In lieu of not changing to English voice overs. People can hear and understand your meaning.Non-argument. Your solution in your first post was to use English voice overs tick box. This doesn't magically stop the enemy from hearing you. Stop changing the goalposts.
Which will likely be your squad in general, the medic specifically, unless you're waiting ten minutes to say thanks.However, the commo rose command doesn't muffle your entire squads sound, and is only audible to people close by.
Logic. Yeah.Re-read the thread, then. You've said nothing which I haven't refuted clearly, concisely, with indisputable logic.
You're not reading them, you're skimming and making the conclusions you choose to make.If I didn't read them, how come I have replied to every single point you've made, and soundly, simply, and with impeccable logic refuted it as absolute unsubstantiated tosh?
Unlike you, I based my arguments on facts and logic. To disagree with those is "wrong"; the fact that they support my argument is purely coincidental. But, if it's easier for you to ignore the numerous facts and arguments laid out above and think my sound refutation of the non-arguments put forward is solely down to some sort of personal grudge or ego trip - that's fine. If I found myself made to look like a buffoon and my beliefs shown to be ridiculous, I'd prolly launch a childish ad hominem against the victor too.
This is fact and logic? No, this is opinion. You have the two mixed up.Bzzt, wrong. Because the chat is less obtrusive than talking over people with VOIP. If you prefer the "spam" in VOIP, fine, that's your preference. I don't.
So read the content, not the quantity and think about them.Brevity is the sole of wit. I was judging your arguments based on the content, not the quantity.
You're the *** because of your tone. As much as you would like to entertain the idea you're being an intellectual debater, you're just being condescending and rude to anyone who doesn't support your ideas. An actual debater would identify why their oponents say something, think about it and forumlate an argument against that point, not do something like say, this:Naturally I'm the ***. I'm disagreeing with the bandwagon jumpers, the irrational vBF2 loathers, the very status quo. And I'm doing so in a highbrow and highly effective manner. That makes me public enemy number 1. Feel free to continue burning this heretic.
Which is opinion spouted as fact.Bzzt, wrong. Because the chat is less obtrusive than talking over people with VOIP. If you prefer the "spam" in VOIP, fine, that's your preference. I don't.
99% is a bare assertion fallacy; the examples given are cherry picking, and comparing it to this thread is as false analogy.99% of what has been removed from PR (i.e. Minimap for infantry, squad leader spawning) is not coming back.
The presence of a learning curve is a red-herring; also an error of composition.there's a learning curve to PR, if you want to use the voice commands, you're going to have to learn.
Causal oversimplification, along with the tradition of vBF2 bashing that is prevalent on this forum.try typing something in chat on full 64 vanilla server and you'll understand why it was removed
Inconsistent comparison; "more use" is not comparable to "being available".Because VOIP, Mumble and TS are in more use? (...) all these options were available for vBF2 but it was removed from PR anyway.
Two bare assertions there.And then people will spam the Squad chat channel. Part of the removal was also to remove as many elements of the HUD as possible.
Ad nauseum; plus cliché.There is a Search Function and the Already Suggested Suggestions List for a reason.
Appeal to fear (of getting spammed); and proof by example.even with "i need medic" only message(as it right now) sometimes whole chat window get completely spammed, if you add back nearly all shouts it will be spammed most of the time
