Muttrah City Feedback and Suggestions

solipsism · Post by **solipsism** » 2006-05-15 21:57

IRL the shadows would seem darker from teh immense brightness of the light and the time it would take for your pupil to adjust. Granted its no HDR, but it seems fine to me.

I think its the Best BF2 map, and one of my favorite MP maps yet. I do think some thing could be done with the area between the end of warehouse/docks and the gas station area, although im not sure what.

A skilled pilot/squad can easily take it and secure, then advance from there. Maybe some more cover in between the storage building and street leading to the station, to cover from snipers.

Burning Mustache · Post by **Burning Mustache** » 2006-05-16 01:50

I really like the map overall, it makes for some great infantry fights and has a nice feeling to it.

In it's current condition, however, it is HORRIBLY one-sided.
While I agree with what some people here wrote that, a "decent" or "good" US team can capture the Docks with a successful Littlebird-ride initially, the main problem seems to emerge when it comes to attacking the other checkpoints whilst holding the docks.

I have played this map several times and have yet to see the US team win, EVER.
The gameplay usually goes like this:
US flies two squads to Docks, captures docks, advances towards city, battles emerge, MEC beat down ALL the marines on the island, recapture the Docks and from there on it is a pure marine-butchery.

Basically, all the MEC have to do is to try to secure the Docks as soon as possible (which is what they usually do) and spray at any incoming littlebirds.
Add some snipers on the freight crane for the odd marines occasionaly entering via boat, and you're set.

Once the MEC have set up position at the docks, the game gets incredibly frustrating for the marines.
At least 2 people, sometimes 4 (in particular those sitting "outside") on the littlebirds will get shot down by machine gun fire before the Littlebird even lands.

Again, the map is horribly one-sided and I have yet to see the US team win, ever. I don't doubt that it's possible with a very good and commited team, but on most servers you won't find enough dedicated players to really pull it off.

One suggestion to improve it would be to give the US side access to artillery, so they can sweep the docks clean before landing there.

What I really would like to see, albeit probably not possible with the mod "engine" is the checkpoint on the far east to be cappable for the US simultaneously with the docks. This way the MEC have to split up to defend the far west checkpoint (Docks) and the far east checkpoint aswell. Now the marines would have a chance to capture at least one of them and get a foothold from there on.

Other than that, I can't really think of any more ways to even out the balance on this map without totally altering the feeling and scenario of the map unfortunately

I'll play some more rounds on it tomorrow though, and I really hope that we, as a community could find a way to balance this one out a little more, because, apart from the one-sidedness of the map, I REALLY love it

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-05-16 01:58

The only time I ever see the USMC win is when the UH-60 is offering excellent CAS. That thing is a nightmare for troops on the ground if it's in the right hands.

Burning Mustache · Post by **Burning Mustache** » 2006-05-16 02:01

I like landing in the sewer pipe and flanking the mec after we take the docks.

The problem is that, usually, the Littlebirds fly towards the docks at the beginning (landing there, unfortunately), US capping the docks, EVERYBODY on us spawning on the docks, the whole US team getting gunned down, MEC capping the docks and setting up position there. Inbetween, there is no time (and lack of chopper on the carrier) to get another squad behind to flank them (while the US still have the docks, mind you).

solipsism · Post by **solipsism** » 2006-05-16 02:11

Ive seen the US win many times on this map.

Edit: Once they get teh docks it is very easy to drain the MEC tickets.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-16 02:18

give the marines another blackhawk so they don't get shot off the sides of the LBs anymore. My simple solution

EPatrick · Post by **EPatrick** » 2006-05-16 02:50

I'm going to agree with what was said above. Making the docks a uncappable flag would make for a much better map.

Burning Mustache · Post by **Burning Mustache** » 2006-05-16 02:57

Dondero wrote:I'm going to agree with what was said above. Making the docks a uncappable flag would make for a much better map.

The thing is, making it an uncappable US base would probably uneven the map in favour of the US team WAY too much again.
This is a very delicate issue I'm afraid

Again, what I would REALLY like to see, allthough it's probably impossible with the current game-mechanics, is to have the Docks and the base on the opposite (east) side of the map (forgot the name) to be cappable for the US as first bases simultaneously.
I gues you could get rid of the capping order alltogether for this map aswell, but then again, I'm not sure whether this is possible with the gameplay mechanics.

Post by **GeZe** » 2006-05-16 03:30

Don't make docks US uncap, bad idea.

- Either US gets APC when they cap docks
- Or the MEC starts off with another netrual flag, slowing them down letting US get gas station more easily.

EPatrick · Post by **EPatrick** » 2006-05-16 03:33

I do like that idea.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-16 06:11

GeZe wrote:- Or the MEC starts off with another netrual flag, slowing them down letting US get gas station more easily.

ye that's what ive been thinking since ive been playing the 64man version.

shame i couldn't test it enough as the max testers i ever got to play this map was 20 at 1 time i think.

I also have a few other ideas how to balance this map out.

but you will defiantly NOT see the docks become a uncapped flag as that, + little birds and black hawks would just mean easy victory for the USMC.

Also you will not see anouther BH on this map. The reason why people get shot out of the sides of the LB is basicly because you have a pilot flying it who dosent know what hes doing. Probaly flying to high and to slow so that all the RPKs below can see him comming from a mile, and they can just throw up as many bulliets as they like at it. If the LB pilot flys low and fast inbetween the buildigns the RPKs have very little time to see the LB before it goes behind anouther building ect.

Also the BH is very easy to take down with 1 AT rocket or with 1 stinger sight.

Skullening.Chris · Post by **Skullening.Chris** » 2006-05-16 06:33

I played this map quite a few times yesterday, and many times on the USMC side, people would get really frustrated and not even bother trying to go for the dock, and, instead, stay at the carrier TKing all the LBs with C4 and other stupid shite, ruining any chance for USMC altogether :-\

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-17 05:31

More littlebirds and maybe a Blackhawk or Apache for fire support. Roof camping the dock cranes needs risks.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-17 05:43

'[R-CON wrote:NikovK']More littlebirds and maybe a Blackhawk or Apache for fire support. Roof camping the dock cranes needs risks.

or just faster spawning LBs...

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-17 08:26

Its a question of moving bulk. Assuming 16v16, the US can only send 12 men over against 16, leaving four stranded or taking a boat. Assuming the helo pilots fly shuttle, they can then send only 10 men at a time. This all presumes the team fills helicopters to full capacity, which they often don't. One teamkiller or a lucky Eryx and your LB flight only lands five men against 16. The problem gets worse on servers with higher populations like Gloryhoundz, where 20 v 20 occurs. One side sends ten against twenty with the advantages of concealment, local respawns and position.

There need to be at least three, maybe four LB's on the carrier at spawn and some sort of helicopter fire support, Blackhawk miniguns or Apache rockets (You can safely add SAM sites without threatening the LB's to help counter gunships). I very much want to see this remain a helicopter insertion, infantry dominated map, but more firepower is required to cut a foothold into the AAS cap order.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-17 08:29

have you played the 64man version yet?

ZupaflyBE · Post by **ZupaflyBE** » 2006-05-17 13:16

For me the main problem is the long waiting time till spawning almost 1 min it was when I played, thats way to long for me. I seriously wanna be in the action. I would say 30 secs is more than enough to wait... I have seen us team fail so hard to even get the docks under their control.

It might be due to the aas system though because if more flags would be capturable with new ideas of other post like multiple soldiers needed to capture a flag, tree flag options etc it might be better

Concerning the map, I like it alot. When the gameplay is adjusted more the map will be nicer I think.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-17 13:32

ZupaflyBE wrote:For me the main problem is the long waiting time till spawning almost 1 min it was when I played, thats way to long for me. I seriously wanna be in the action. I would say 30 secs is more than enough to wait... I have seen us team fail so hard to even get the docks under their control.

It might be due to the aas system though because if more flags would be capturable with new ideas of other post like multiple soldiers needed to capture a flag, tree flag options etc it might be better

Concerning the map, I like it alot. When the gameplay is adjusted more the map will be nicer I think.

try not to squad hop (leave and rejoin squads) as that gives you a 30sec + penalty on your spawn time.