Commander Rework

[{UK}Suzeran]

Ok i have tried to get attention to this sticky subject before so here i will paraphrase:

.no one likes to sit behind a computer ,sitting behind a computer
.commanders and cel lleaders are scarce often or plain uninterested or always filled by server admins
.what if there was a better way i propose 2 options for consideration

1.commander is still a class and role in game; yet commander can set CP to agresive,defensive or neutral bot mode whilst he takes care of business ( not a great leap forward maybe even one back)

2.commander is renamed ROT (radio operator?) and is the eyes and ears of a imaginary unseen general,
*he has a huge hulking backpack so it is clear what his role is from affar, he can only have a 3man squad arnd him enuff for a medic say and a aux.
*is totally prone to attack when he consults his console and there is a delay between its opening screen, further usual injury blood affects his view of it same as map screen.
*he is armed with only light weapons maybe pistol perhaps and smoke

I wouuld be very grateful for for any criticism of this idea as i really like the radio op idea and think the commander role often is a bit of a dud. I have played for along time bf2 started in demos and now i am a PR player soley so plz do not laugh me out of town.

[CryOfTheWulfen]

Some ideas sound good to me eg.comm outside the Comm Truck, allows situational awareness

Dont know whether the squad system is hardcoded, i suspect it is (so the 3 man Comm squad is a no go)

BUT bot in the CP is fail, what would he do-couldnt provide intel, could only do the job of the auto approve FB comm when there is no human commander

[Rudd]

.no one likes to sit behind a computer ,sitting behind a computer
true, to an extent

2.commander is renamed ROT (radio operator?) and is the eyes and ears of a imaginary unseen general,
*he has a huge hulking backpack so it is clear what his role is from affar, he can only have a 3man squad arnd him enuff for a medic say and a aux.
*is totally prone to attack when he consults his console and there is a delay between its opening screen, further usual injury blood affects his view of it same as map screen.
*he is armed with only light weapons maybe pistol perhaps and smoke
unfortunately BF2 voip and squad system is hardcoded, it would be a convoluted system that allowed a commander in a squad

Really its very simple what needs to be done imo on big maps, he needs a uav (flying camera not vbf2 radar of doom), on smaller infantry focused maps, he needs a mortar at main that he can fire and access the console on at the same time.

[{UK}Suzeran]

thanks for ure imput i realise the Auto commander is a bit of a joke idea but it gets u thinking about how great a RO instead of commander could be, id love to hear more practical ideas as i have little idea of the engine mechanics.

commander has gota be reworked if this mod is ever to get above 1.1/1.5 with ARMA2 on its way and in a while it will become a standard

[Zimmer]

commander has gota be reworked if this mod is ever to get above 1.1/1.5 with ARMA2 on its way and in a while it will become a standard

Now now Arma1 had the most clunky controls ever. And PR was said to be doomed when ARMA got out well I dont see its doomed do you?

PR may not be as "realistic" as ARMA and tbh I dont care I play for the teamwork and have a chat with squaddies and clanies.

But anyway commander need some serious hardcore love. Flyable UAV would be one of them.

[{UK}Suzeran]

But anyway commander need some serious hardcore love. Flyable UAV would be one of them.

this is not intended to be a ARMA discussion ok, but too true commander needs a rework

[GreedoNeverShot]

Incoming ideas Building onto yours.... kinda.

Nobody wants the responsibilities or lack of responsibilities that the commander has. Why not have a Squad Leader requestable kit (or spawnable) for the CO position? With mumble, certain squad leaders are coordinating the squads instead of the commander, why not help him out? This requestable kit could be a watered down officer kit with a laptop (something like that) or the radio you mentioned. It would take time to boot up which would make him vulnerable... like you said.
This squad leader would have the responsibilities of both a commander and squad leader, so he wouldn't get bored, the "commander" would get dedicated protection, and he could communicate with everyone via Mumble (bundle Mumble with PR or w/e). He would also have situational awareness, something the commander now lacks.

Building onto the idea of being able to see the Command map in the field...
add mobile command vehicle (realistic, specialized APC.)
laptop/radio from kit with bootup time
placeable command radios from FOBs
FOBs radios can be used.

Just ideas. Nobody can say the CO doesn't need fixing.

[ZiRo]

I'll make a different suggestion.

This probably goes against the direction PR is going but bare with me

- More mortars. Mortars every 15 mins on most maps
This will encourage the SL's to take an interest in the commander, because he can actually HELP them and they can actually do something EFFECTIVE by working together. It also allows the commander to put more decisive attacks together and put the shock and awe into an assault that maybe lacks it.

Remember the targets have to be requested by SL's on the ground, so even though the commander has access to mortars every 10 minutes doesnt mean FB's can be spammed every 10 minutes, unless a squad has eyes on, which is fair enough in my eyes.

At the moment the commander is pretty much useless for anything but intel and *trying* to direct SL's, you'd be lucky to find 2/3 squads who actually listen. At least with mortars it's in their interest to listen, so they can get the firesupport when required.

I don't think adding mortars every 15 mins wouldn't change the gameplay other than add some cohesion. There is relatively little scope for abusing the amount of firesupport the commander would have access to, since an SL requires eyes on to deploy it, which is fair game if they can manage that any way.

[Rudd]

Nobody wants the responsibilities or lack of responsibilities that the commander has. Why not have a Squad Leader requestable kit (or spawnable) for the CO position? With mumble, certain squad leaders are coordinating the squads instead of the commander, why not help him out? This requestable kit could be a watered down officer kit with a laptop (something like that) or the radio you mentioned. It would take time to boot up which would make him vulnerable... like you said.

The question then becomes, "what's the point if they are all on mumble?" the SLs can just talk to eachother to make a plan, the commander can give nothing but input...

- More mortars. Mortars every 15 mins on most maps
This will encourage the SL's to take an interest in the commander, because he can actually HELP them and they can actually do something EFFECTIVE by working together. It also allows the commander to put more decisive attacks together and put the shock and awe into an assault that maybe lacks it.

This will never happen because it would be considered too vBF2.

The alternative would be to take the current mortar strike/whatever and cut it up in to smaller peices. Lets say there are 15 rounds in one mortar strike, give the commander 5 mortar stricks of 3 rounds so that he can give the strategic decision of "do I use all my mortar rounds in one place? I use lots of small strikes instead?" For JDAM I can't see any way past giving the commander a second strike that is avaliable 10minutes after the first with the same recharge rate.

[R.J.Travis]

Commander needs to be the Ace pilot so ls can talk to him (:

[Truism]

Plan to reintroduce commander to PR.

*Commander restrictions (sit in the corner or bottleneck your team) removed.

[{UK}Suzeran]

Incoming ideas This requestable kit could be a watered down officer kit with a laptop (something like that) or the radio you mentioned. It would take time to boot up which would make him vulnerable... like you said.
This squad leader would have the responsibilities of both a commander and squad leader, so he wouldn't get bored, the "commander" would get dedicated protection, and he could communicate with everyone via Mumble (bundle Mumble with PR or w/e). .

this is the best formed idea yet i would like to see mumble bundled with PR but maybe not yet its not a fully formed beast. VOIP allows commander to talk to all SL's anyway so mumble cud stil be optional remember we dont want to get to much into the minutaia of comunication thats why there is a chain of command.

i think the handheld lapttop the commander had in BF2 is very much like what is used in "generation kill" so if we added a radio pak to him itt would help to make the commander more vulnerable so less rambo, which ties with his current hidin in a little box role.

commander/RO
-LAPtop takes time to boot, clouds screen with wounds like map screen, acess to command control via it.
-LArge obvious target via backpack to discourage contact
-Commander/RO a specialist squad leader kit or basic commander acceptance which is best?
-No more mortars no way
-Llong resopawn for commander also perhaps he cannot set rally so has to realy on firebases which would build up therere importance

this is the germ of a hella of an idea, plz continue to collaborate my friends.

[{UK}Suzeran]

ALSO CAN PPL THAT KNOW HOW TO LOOK FOR PICS OF COMS OFFICERS IN IRAQ LAPTOPS/RADIO ETC
AND OLD SOVIET ERA RADIO FOR INSURGENTS (CLEVER EY) POST A >>few<< good examples showin pack sizes and detail much appreciated ill try harder but cannot locate the perfect pics , and i hav seen them!

[Kruder]

Really its very simple what needs to be done imo on big maps, he needs a uav (flying camera not vbf2 radar of doom), on smaller infantry focused maps, he needs a mortar at main that he can fire and access the console on at the same time.

Best thing would be commander flying the UAV and looking down with a guncam.UAV should be really slow though,and a bit big so its an easy target with few hitpoints with 20 min respawn.

Also inrease the Mortar/JDAM strike respawn timers.

[ZiRo]

The opposition to mortars makes me laugh.

It's not a case of making the commander with a big backpack and no gun... It's to do with making the commander useful.

At the moment he can do nothing except press OK to build orders (which are automatic without a commander), say 'err yeah, squad 4 can you help squad 3 take the town pls', and call in a JDAM once every 6 years, providing a squad leader actually knows how to request it and doesn't plop it on some random target which doesn't affect the outcome.

The only way to make the commander more useful is to give him more resources to actually do something with. If you take it to the extreme opposite, vBF2 always has a commander, theres a reason for that - he has stuff, he can call stuff in, he can help and assist the squads - they know they're not going to be out there on their own.

PR reduces that to nothing. No-one -wants- to be commander because he can't acutally do anything. Exodus does a good job on Basrah as Ins Commander, since you can direct the big red but thats about it.

I would whole heartedly support a reduction in mortar respawns, it wouldn't turn the game into a mortar fest, since the squads need to call them in any way. It would also represent the fact conventional armies actually have readily available fire support. I can't imagine an army establishing an airstrip or base without a good deal of firesupport.

Making the mortar strikes less powerful (less rounds fired) isn't such a bad idea, but at the same time they're meant to be an area attack and not a precision attack.

[{UK}Suzeran]

what are you on about mate, we are sayin give the commander eyes on intelligence the ability to follow behind and attack the ability to see first hand what is going on with his binoculars so he feels some atachement to his guys. The reason for the bigger silouhette is to make him careful cuz he represents a larger target a figure head, now ive heard talk of hmmv and apc command station why would these stations even bother to move? they would be constantly gettin told to return to base so that is no option. |BF2 commander makes a joke of PR mortars or uavs are not the solution. Commander needs to be visible to his tyroops and the enmy he needs to complete a forfication such as firebase adding strength and a reason to defend it rather than building for points! we have 32 players a team that is hardly a general or commander or whatever more a link to command. The IDEA behind the rework is that RO/commander can acess the situation and feel close to it whether on foot or in BH or huddled up with his map and radio in a building. His squad read above will a protect him and B want some action. Asfor commander doesnt have enuff power he does its just that its never full used as he cannot really appreciater a situation from his aloof hideout, the FB and mine are and mortar are all good tools albeit all mortars or strikes shud be in a 30 min frame just reduce the impact accordingly!

any more suggestions make it plain, break it down make it simple . no spam

[ZiRo]

what are you on about mate, we are sayin give the commander eyes on intelligence the ability to follow behind and attack the ability to see first hand what is going on with his binoculars so he feels some atachement to his guys. The reason for the bigger silouhette is to make him careful cuz he represents a larger target a figure head, now ive heard talk of hmmv and apc command station why would these stations even bother to move? they would be constantly gettin told to return to base so that is no option. |BF2 commander makes a joke of PR mortars or uavs are not the solution. Commander needs to be visible to his tyroops and the enmy he needs to complete a forfication such as firebase adding strength and a reason to defend it rather than building for points! we have 32 players a team that is hardly a general or commander or whatever more a link to command. The IDEA behind the rework is that RO/commander can acess the situation and feel close to it whether on foot or in BH or huddled up with his map and radio in a building. His squad read above will a protect him and B want some action. Asfor commander doesnt have enuff power he does its just that its never full used as he cannot really appreciater a situation from his aloof hideout, the FB and mine are and mortar are all good tools albeit all mortars or strikes shud be in a 30 min frame just reduce the impact accordingly!

any more suggestions make it plain, break it down make it simple . no spam

Yeah, ok, so lets say he moves with troops.. he sees the action first hand.. then what?

He can't actually -do- anything other than say 'ok we need help over here cos we're getting blown up'.

So now you've got a guy with a backpack, 'visible' to his troops, who has seen whats happening on a small point of the map and can't actually do anything.

Needing a commander to build an FB isn't such a bad idea, but when he's built the FB, then what? 'I'll just wait 40 minutes for the JDAM to become available' - not likely.

Having hardly any fire support is unrealistic to the opposite extreme of vBF2.

[{UK}Suzeran]

Needing a commander to build an FB isn't such a bad idea, but when he's built the FB, then what? 'I'll just wait 40 minutes for the JDAM to become available' - not likely.
.

good points raised mate but he dont build the FB he just uses them as a stronghold, as for fire support i say the commander has aces either evry 30 mins or get to split his arty into chunks or one single salvo, plz continue to help us search for the role of a commander in PR

[{UK}Suzeran]

may i also quickly add, whatever the outcome we need to be thinking what can we do for the commander not what the commander can do for us to make it a more enjoyable experience

[Grim1316]

There are some people who like the current style of commanders, but also others that liked back in .75 where the commander could move about freely. So taking both sides into account, I came up with these Ideas in the commander feedback area, and decided to move them here. This way both people who like the box, and those that don't can both have what they like.

1-Commander can pull up his map anywhere in the field(demonstrating a Laptop). However it would only be able to accept and erase marks and give orders.(not sure if its possible or not)

2-Commander can use the map almost to its full extent in a Logistic Truck( again the laptop but with a better Radio or whatever would be used). The only thing not possible is calling in area attacks(not having the proper radio)

3-full use of the map in the Command Post(needed to call in fire support because of the better communications gear).

4-Specialized Officer kit uses the old spec ops carbines in place of the scoped variant that the officer kit has. Also would cost tickets if the commander is killed(similar to what a cell leader kit costs in INS)(This would also be needed to use the map, the same way the officer kit is needed now).

As for the last one, I suggested it because if they are "zeroed" to the same distance as the old spec ops guns, they would have to be rather close to the enemy to actually hit them. Thus really make people think before charging into battle when playing as the commander.