Operating Jets

[Outlawz7]

Meh there was some skill in shooting down helis with 30mm guns instead of AA missiles, but now with the Tunguska gone it is point-wait-click.

[SprintJack]

More like point-wait-click-pray

[Kruder]

After reading CAS's and Jaymz responses i thought they were talking about a different game.

First of all,whatever you do they hear your plane from 1km at least,and from 4 kms away they hear your start up,you on the other hand need to be within 700 meters to tell difference between a tank and a bush,and even less to distinguish between a wreckage and a tank.You dont have a chance to look(carefully) directly below.Btw this range decreases even more when you are looking for targets on those dark brown hills.

There are no terrain advantage on Kashan,other than a few hills,also missiles keep following even if you are behind a hill.

There is no certain way of dodging AA(after missile is fired) that i know of ,heart of saw of,teached of.Sure, there might be some kind of stupid glitch some people using but this is another story.

AAs dont really need a lock,since they have 6 missiles available now,most players fire without waiting for the lock on towards general direction,and fire others after lock and to your surprise it works!

All your agressivenes assumptions based on the fact that not only enemy AAs are unorganized but also any plane they have is some klind of not communicating guy or a retard.By flying low most of the time over hot places you expose yourself to everything(by means in visibility).AFAIU,you fly low then find a target and kill him on the second run which means coming to same spot from low altitude twice,your approach direction doent make a difference.On an average,fightes planes respond to distress calls of their ground troops even on pub games.Oh and troops on the ground hate planes and gunships,so we all can be sure even the noobest player will report them,at least in VOIP.

Keeping 50-0 on average with this kind of flight attitude,well tbh its not possible,since even the slightest lag,ping problem will cause you to crash,also there are friendly missiles also.

Finally,you compare a-10 vs. mig and give both a %50 chance,wrong,a-10 might have a chance if he spots the mig first,without mig noticing him and mig not flying in a straight line(so you can catch him up during his not-so-tight turns),other than that if both sees each other same time you need help(one has a chance to engage almost beyond visual range+4 more AA missiles)

Also,you start to fly in a plane after 20 minutes of gameplay,which means 4 FBs =4 AAs scattered around anywhere on map could have been build already like their armor.

And you definitely need laser spotters to kill tanks for every other AC in PR,other than a-10.

[CAS_117]

First of all,whatever you do they hear your plane from 1km at least,and from 4 kms away they hear your start up,

I think you are talking about a different game. 0.85 you can't hear the jets until they're on top of you.

There is no certain way of dodging AA(after missile is fired) that i know of ,heart of saw of,teached of.Sure, there might be some kind of stupid glitch some people using but this is another story.

You can't evade Air launched missiles, but Manpads, and most surface to air missiles in general are pretty easy to evade at low altitude. I got hit once with AA on muttrah, while I was at high altitude and wasn't really paying attention. Honestly I coded to things I think I know. Being 10m off the deck means they can't see you.

There are no terrain advantage on Kashan,other than a few hills,also missiles keep following even if you are behind a hill.

Then you're not low enough. And Kashan has a ton of mountains and gullies to let you escape out of pretty much any situation. 90% of the time the AA will not sit on the crest of the hill (would silhouette them so easy acquisition). So if they are on the north face of a mountain, attack from the north and escape south. If on the east face, egress west. This means at best they have a headon shot.

Keeping 50-0 on average with this kind of flight attitude,well tbh its not possible,since even the slightest lag,ping problem will cause you to crash,also there are friendly missiles also.

Oh now you're just being pessimistic. Play on servers with good ping, turn down the textures and dynamic light: no lag. Basic stuff.



I bet I would have gotten 50 - 0 if the round didn't end. When you kill their vehicles the rounds are fast.

All your agressivenes assumptions based on the fact that not only enemy AAs are unorganized but also any plane they have is some klind of not communicating guy or a retard.By flying low most of the time over hot places you expose yourself to everything(by means in visibility).

lol my "aggressiveness assumptions" are based on the fact that all the enemy SAMs are dead. All their AAVs at some point have to move out of their main, and depending on the admins, you can hit them usually 500m out or so. And all their firebases need a chopper or truck to get them supplies. Kill them too. Firebases make a big cloud being built, just look for them.

Yes having a spotter to find their fixed AA is a real break when you get it, but a lot of the time you just gotta dumb fire a few bombs and use some AA missiles to blanket the area I'm afraid.

AFAIU,you fly low then find a target and kill him on the second run which means coming to same spot from low altitude twice,your approach direction doent make a difference.On an average,fightes planes respond to distress calls of their ground troops even on pub games.Oh and troops on the ground hate planes and gunships,so we all can be sure even the noobest player will report them,at least in VOIP.

You're a lot harder to spot 5m off the ground at full AB. And don't think I am dissing spotters or anything, but you can't guarantee he will see the enemy or will get a lase. Often I spot the enemy tanks rolling up behind him before he does. To help air to air I usually just have a guy sit in the middle of the map and tells me whats going on usually. I usually will have him give intel and attack markers until I've gotten all their AA and jets. After that you can just blockade their main. And if you don't want the enemy aircraft to easily locate you, keep changing your heading.

They might have a fixed AA in your area, but 1. they are an easy dodge, and 2. if you take out all of the easily locatable AA, trucks, and choppers, then its a much nicer picture and all you have to worry about are the surviving fixed AA platforms. Don't let them mass, don't make it hard on yourself.

Look it just comes down to the fact that yes they might kill you eventually, but until then you need to use every missile, bomb, rocket, bullet, and flare that you have. Dying with a weapon still on your plane is the one thing you shouldn't do.

Like you said even the A-10 has a chance of killing the mig, and even though I kill most of the enemies aircraft in 2 minutes, there is always that possibility he'll see you first.

[CAS_117]

*EDIT: Also let me quell your fears of static AA. Seriously once you find the Firebase its not a hard shot.

A = pi*r^2

---

dist AA can be from FB = 150m

Total area AA launcher can be anywhere within = 70685.8 m^2

Sure that looks like a pretty big number but:

---

blast radius for AA missiles = 55m

Total area per shot = 9503.3m^2 x 6 = 57019.8m^2

---

Fragmentation radius for GBU-12 = 85m (note that in PR bombs will fragment at ANY altitude).

Total area per shot = 22698m^2 x 2 = 45396m^2

45396m^2 + 57019.8m^2

= 102415.8 - 70685.8 m^2

= 31730m^2

and:

70685.8 m^2 / = 102415.8

= 0.69 = 69%

1 - 0.69 = 0.31

ie) EVEN IF YOU MISS BY 31% EACH SHOT, YOU WILL STILL KILL THE SAM LAUNCHER.

And this is the minimum chances of hitting. Of course there is the probability that the AA launcher is in cover (why would anyone do that?) but I would assume its normally distributed. And so on the same hand most people will simply place the AA launcher directly beside the firebase, but I again assume that this is normally distributed (even though from my experiences its not).

From my experience AA launchers are on the highest point within 150m of the firebase, so usually I only need 1 bomb to kill them.

And I haven't even calculated with guns yet. And that fires at 5400 RPM with a 7m casualty radius.

So basically the only advantage AA has is that if you are within range and don't know where it is, and it has an unobstructed view, and you don't evade or use countermeasures, it will probably damage you depending on ping.

The igla still requires a direct hit to kill you, or 2 near misses unfortunately. Even in reality an SA-18 is hardly a match for most aircraft in use in PR. Add the view distance and its just dismal. ??:

[PlatinumA1]

Once again , CAS goes in depth to the extreme. We get it buddy you win

[Kirra]

CAS, bother to make a vid of you flying low? I really wanna see how the hell you pull that off...

[CAS_117]

sigh I gotta finish some work. I'll do it sometime.

[Kruder]

Probably longest post i've ever typed.Wont go quote by quote,tired.

1)You can hear jets from distance,at least i do,almost half a second before visua range,of course sound doenst give away your altitude but your direction,and 0.5 second is enough time to scan that direction for AC,and even AAV and a-10 spots each other at the same time,AA has more chahce to kill you,because you first need to spot him-takes time-,aim him -takes time- while all he has to do is keeping you infront of his sight by simply moving his mouse and hitting fire button a few times.

I can also hear AC warming up from my main,like any sneaky AA operator waiting for a kill.

2)I'd really like to know the trick of evading a fired missile.(since you've coded)

3)Terrain works if AA is on the lower part,if he is a bit higher(say on 20 meter hill) half of those covers will be useless.Sure,terrain is very useful in Quinling but not in Kashan.

4)True

5)You dont have the option to keep an eye on their main every second,on every direction,especially with flying low,basically they have at least 3 directions to choose from while leaving main and there are 4 of them iirc,most of the time they pick the shortest route,true,but there are AAs on their main,plus AC,plus they might be leaving in groups of two AAs .If a-10 was that effective while i was playing as MEC i'd go at least in groups of two with AAVs.And they'll be camping within that 500 meters of their base if they keep getting killed there.

Here is what you say,you can see anything on anywehere of the map while flying low,choppers,trucks,tanks,AAVs,bunkers without resistance on a 4x4 km map,and not only you do spot them but also distinguish each one of them(this is truck,this is aa etc.).

FBs can be built inside compounds,in ditches,and they are built within 1 minute and 30 seconds for their AA.Like i've said 2 of them are built before any AC spawns on average.And ground players are allergic to any kind of effective AC,if you kill 50 of them with a tank they wont mind,but if you kill 10 of them with AC ,they will do anything to shoot you down.

For example,in bunker complex its hard to distinguish between a static bunker,a foxhole and an actual FB from a distance.And AAs can leave main or FBs can be built during your landing.(still not taking into account of any AC)

And all i am saying is this:your method is more risky,of course you can get killed either way or survive while flying as a geniune noob till you crash on landing.Lots of this depends on luck and on your team and on enemy.Sure with conventional method you'll get killed as well.

Like once ,flew in circles for 10-15 minutes waiting for a report of a target,finally somebody gave me some grid of a tank,i dive,drop flares fire keep dropping flares(before lock) kill the tank but after the strafe i hear a beep and then a bang,i am down.I got autoswitched after that,first thing i check is who got me,yes, a single AA inf. who happened to be around that tank.

About killing fighter with a bomber,i gave you some prequisites(maybe wrong word but) to have a chance to shoot him down,even if these happen,both of your missiles could still miss and next thing you look for a friendly active AA on map while hiding in clouds.

My point is,being exposed as little as possible,killing your target with one attack(if you miss you shouldnt be doing another run soon because they man AAs,report you etc.)ibeing patient.You dont need to kill tens of tanks,even if you finish whole round destroying 2 tanks 1 chopper 1 bomber and 1 FB,you are still good.You costed 38 tickets at the very least.

P.S:Your calculations;you assume that ,for example, every missile you fire will hit within 150 meters of FB and 55 meters away from each other,which is impossible.And that is for 1 AA out of 4,and 1 FB out of 4,without being harassed by enemy AC.

[CAS_117]

About your calculations,you assume that ,for example every missile you fire will hit within 150 meters of FB and 55 meters away from each other,which is impossible.

Like I said, you have a 31% margin for error. But 90% of the time the AA is directly on the firebase. Seriously have you asked how I killed a dozen enemy jets and TUNGUSKAS! Those had guns dude. And better missiles. How do you explain going 74 - 0, then 25 - 0? I am showing you what I did and how I did it. Take it or leave it.

Like once flew in circles for 10-15 minutes waiting for a report of a target,finally somebody gave me some grid of a tank,i dive,drop flares fire keep dropping flares(before lock) hit the tank but after the strafe i hear a beep and then a bang,i am down.I got autoswitched after that,first thing i check is who got me,yes, a single AA inf. who happened to be around that tank.

Um, never been hit by handheld AA lol. If you are having trouble evading you probably need to play some Escapa. Well ok twice while taking off from main in 0.708. But that's a different story. That just proves my point that if you don't deny the enemy mobility then you are just going have to either fight prepared air defenses while stuck fighting enemy aircraft, or doing CAS in the SAM umbrella.

You can see so much of the map so fast when you are at certain height. You can seriously every square inch of the map in 82 seconds if you are at the minimum possible altitude. Some people actually don't believe me and ask "CAS how did you find me? ". I just reply "By looking ".

Locating targets is NOT THAT HARD! Once you kill it, you know EXACTLY the 3 routes it can take to get to the front line, you even know approximately when its going to be there. All 3 of them have high cliffs nearby to duck around, take a peek and then gtfo.

Besides Kashan is MOUNTAINOUS, RUGGED, HILLY. I am seeing how you are not getting this since your version of terrain masking and mine seem to be two entirely different things. Ok let me explain again. Let me explain again with some numbers.



After that it comes down to your screen resolution and perception rate I guess.

[SocketMan]

I want to see how many kills CAS117 gets with Tweaky flying on the other side

[CAS_117]

lol Tweaky flies the same way... that would be pretty epic.

[Kruder]

CAS,i am not comparing high flying vs low flying,if you'll go for search and destroy type stuff,sure,low flying is a lot better...

I am comparing hiding till they call you in vs. flying low all over the map.About numbers,i dont SS scoreboard,or anything at all.It could have been a lucky round,could have been a long and lucky round,could have been long and lucky round with few players,but if i need one to make point here is one,i didnt take the SS( i wasnt shot down with a -10,killed before it spawned)...KDR is below 40 because we had those swedish pyschos in tanks,with 50 kills.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f29-pr ... uk-67.html

And arent all missiles are same,i mean is handheld different than a manpad in terms of damage/lock on time,range?They look same act same and if they fire before lock on,the rest is all about luck,because as you know a-10 is very slow and bulky,you dont have time to react in 1 second,sure you think lots of stuff in this 1 second including the mother of the shooter and press X while trying to evade but plane wont react.So it all depends on the luck...

KAshan is not a rugged hilly map,sure you have some kind of ditch and little hills around outposts and bases, and elevated mountain in middle where those AAs are mostly located,covering one side of these mountains almost TOTALLY,but most of the fight takes pace over bunkers and US village,both of these places are plain ground,nowhere to hide.

And i've been asking you for 3 times how to evade a fired missile,all i get is sarcasm,ok i suck and cant fly or shoot,but i want to learn from a guru like you,yet you dont tell me,if its something so secretive you can p.m me,or just say its your secret formula,because apparently even the NATO pilots in PRT didnt know your trick,including Nickbond.

[Alex6714]

And arent all missiles are same,i mean is handheld different than a manpad in terms of damage/lock on time,range?

No. Most types vary afaik.

[Duke]

And i've been asking you for 3 times how to evade a fired missile,all i get is sarcasm,ok i suck and cant fly or shoot,but i want to learn from a guru like you,yet you dont tell me,if its something so secretive you can p.m me,or just say its your secret formula,because apparently even the NATO pilots in PRT didnt know your trick,including Nickbond.

O rly? Which NATO pilots have you been asking, NATO 2s? (i kid i kid ). Bonds a chopper whore anyway, his jet piloting is shall we say, limited . Its common knowledge that chopper hos have a mortal fear of AA as its considerably more lethal when your not moving at 2000 with max AB.

Evading launched missiles in PR really isn't hard, it just requires some knowledge of the battlefield as cas says. Provided you know their rough position (and by rough i literally mean rough, compass directions), you can exploit the limitations of the missile against the obscene turn radius and speed of your aircraft. Obviously reactions come into it, but with manpads and iglas its more about GTFOing out of their coverage dome in whatever way possible, and turning like billyo whilst spamming flares, preferably in a perpendicular direction to the direction of the inbound missile (course that will require adjustment as the missile changes heading). Cas may have given his some superuberleetwrfbbq name and definition, but it'll consist of the same principles. Simply put, make yourself a harder target.

Oh and as alex says, air to air missiles vary considerably from the ground based counterparts, namely in the fact that the air launched ones are about more lethal, faster (i think) and have smaller turn radii. Cas can confirm this, but thats what ive experienced anyway.

[bondsan]

On the A-10 I fly maybe 20m off the desert floor

no AA vehicle expects an A-10 to show up 100m in front of them, and with AAA guns gone, they CANNOT lock and fire their missiles in time.

i love it when people try the low level stuff they always get busted up by a clever AA


there are no set rules just guidlines, choose what suits you best and good luck landing on quinling. for cas i prefer to wait around 3-4k high until i get a call then dive and bomb, for intercept it's just patrol, loop roll ect try and find them first but...........when you do find them turn your radar off until you are in a good position to kill then activate radar lock and finish they get less time to react and evade the missile

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