Civi killers should be demoted

[bad_nade]

I've been thinking the problems related to civilan collaborator kit and came up with this small suggestion. The problem I'm talking about is how recklessly coalition forces shoot and kill civilans dispite the penalty conditions and consequences. I think people doesn't care about the penalties because:

a) they are not severe enough
b) they DOES NOT WORK!

PR manual lists several penalties for players who kill civilians, but practically the only one that really affect anyone is increased spawn time. People just don't care about scores or intel points loss, and kit limitations can be circumvented by asking someone else to request a kit for the offender.

And here my suggestion steps in.

Like topic says, anyone who kills civilian collaborator under penalty conditions should be demoted to basic rifleman for some yet-to-be-decided time (20 minutes maybe?) This would mean that the only kit allowed for the offender during that time would be a rifleman. Thus he would be prevented to spawn with, or pick-up any other kit than rifleman. Just like civilians are prevented to pick up any armed kits. This limitation should apply even the squad leaders and unlimited requestable kits like crewman and pilot. If an offender picks up a kit he's not allowed to carry, he would die instantly (and all timers would start from the beginning?)

I think this type of penalty would over time make people more careful as the penalty would very effectively limit players ability to use kits and vehicles. Player would be still able to play and help his team as this type of penalty wouldn't effect his spawn time more than current penalties already do.

[Dev1200]

It's already in the game, unless your thinking about it being extended to medics/specialists/officers etc.

Instant-Death would be a good idea, simulating having dishonorable discharge.

[bad_nade]

It's already in the game, unless your thinking about it being extended to medics/specialists/officers etc.

Yep, extending it to medics/specialists/officers/crewmans/pilots/snipers/grenadiers/whatever is exactly what I mean. And like I said in my original post, current system where civi killer is prevented for requesting special kits for 10 minutes (IIRC) can be circumvented way too easily.

[Dev1200]

It's already covered by all limited kits anyway. Sounds good!

[W4lt3r89]

Well, if instant death is implemented to the civi killer and long spawn time, wouldn't there be a risk that all insurgents would take civilians on purpose and get shot on purpose.. And any Coalition soldier that tries to arrest them just gets his face smashed by flying rocks.

And some others might take the classes that have IEDs/Mines/G T's and render the Coalition having even harder time on getting to the caches.

[cyberzomby]

Yea that would be an enormous risk. That was what they where used for when they got first introduced. Human meat shields.

[bad_nade]

Well, if instant death is implemented to the civi killer

Instant death applies to situation where player suffering his temporary demotion tries to break free from kit request limitations by picking up a limited (a.k.a. forbidden) kit.

Instant death in the moment when a civi is killed is already ingame. IIRC it will happen when player kills his fourth civilian under penalty conditions.

And any Coalition soldier that tries to arrest them just gets his face smashed by flying rocks.

Know your kit and rules of enforcement. Civies can be shot using rifleman specialist's breaching shotgun (even it currently doesn't have bean bag shells). No need to get up close and personal.

[TheLean]

The problem I have is that even with the highest graphics the civilian model is the same as the rest of the insurgents at medium to long range. Especially the sapper is looking very similar but also the other ones since the red headwear of some insurgents is not modelled far away. So usually I look for a weapon instead of looking at the model. Maybe this is what soldiers deal with irl and then it is good I guess but it can be really hard sometimes.

Ps. I suggest just lowering the civilian spawn time, why is it two minutes in the first place, there is no reason to punish civilians dying as I can think of.

[bad_nade]

Ps. I suggest just lowering the civilian spawn time, why is it two minutes in the first place, there is no reason to punish civilians dying as I can think of.

Longer spawn times discourage people using civies as human shields, or even worse, running directly to enemy fire on purpose.

[Tim270]

To be honest I would shoot someone who is throwing rocks at me anyway, if he is willing to throw rocks I bet if he had a gun he would be willing to shoot at me.

[bad_nade]

I really dont agree with not letting them get the medic kit...

Coding and documentaion simplicity. Kill a civi -> be a rifleman. And if I've understand other threads correclty, medic kit is going to be limited too.

Medic kit would, however, offer interesting community service flavour to the penalty. Kill a civi -> be a medic and help saving lives

[bad_nade]

if he is willing to throw rocks I bet if he had a gun he would be willing to shoot at me.

Hopefully this far-fetched gateway theory does not have anything to do with real life :/ I seriously doubt that rock throwers are willing to shoot real weapons at you.

[Truism]

Longer spawn times discourage people using civies as human shields, or even worse, running directly to enemy fire on purpose.

Longer spawn times coupled with very lenient penalties encourage their shooting (hurts the other team more than you) discourages realistic use of civvies as meatshields and discourages people from playing what is a very important class.

Collaborators and Civvies should be different classes.

[bad_nade]

Longer spawn times coupled with very lenient penalties encourage their shooting (hurts the other team more than you) discourages realistic use of civvies as meatshields and discourages people from playing what is a very important class.

One problem with the current penalty system is that it will affect the team in form of intel points loss but penalties are too lenient as whole. Which in leads to reckless or ignorant behaviour. I see civi shootings as an attitude problem of certain individuals, which should be addressed at the same individual level without hurting his team too much. One, if not only, way to achieve this is the demotion I explained in the opening post.

[nick20404]

IRL if someone is standing next to a insurgent with a weapon and they don't have a weapon they are still considered to be with the enemy, so engaging them is perfectly legal. In the game we don't have the luxury of this so civis often jump into the path of fire, making the punish more harsh would suck, if anything it should be reduced, I wouldn't mind to much if the civis were taken completely out since they are pretty unrealistic right now. Or make them value there lives like regular people instead of wanting to get hit by bullets try to avoid them.

[{UK}Suzeran]

in my opinion and im growing them civi is often killed cuz of over eager players with bad draw distance ( called (L??) i have read different articles on it suggesting increasing it etc. My comp is shiz and if i kill a civi it is always a bummer, i like the kit restriction idea inaway but its still no biggy is it, the problem lies with draw scale and also civi is hardest kit to play HARDEST""""*** needs total team work
my only beef is civi spawn shud be halved to suit the way it is often used despite ppls best intentions of lovely PR crew

[{UK}Suzeran]

also i wish we had more civis that could transform into but VERY SLOWLY out of insurgent mode ??? oops new thread

[503]

Say the pilot of an apache on Karbarla does a hydra run and kills a civi. Instant death and you got no more apache.

[sentinel]

But the problem is that soldiers that usually kill civies play with the rifleman kit with scope, don't understand why because it's worst weapon in close combat. Ever seen a sniper killing a civi by mistake?!

And what about the long spawntime, it's the best time to go to the toilet or fridge. I have even heard the commander told the cobra gunner/pilot to start bombard entire spawn area with civies and all. Why? Because if the cobra is shot down they will be waiting for 20 minutes and the intel point gain will be positive.

The only way to go is: Loss of tickets and a report to all that someone has shot a civi... Why? Because when shooting civies will eventually cost their teammates the game there will be people calling the shooters noobs and noboby likes that. End of problem.