Convenient spawns, can we do without them?

[Rudd]

Jabal Al Burj, the American squad on Dam gets killed, but they can spawn nearby and retaliate thanks to their rally point or possibly a firebase.

This has 2 problems with it

1) the enemy don't want to have to hunt down piles of bags (though they are very well designed thanks to teh 3 in 50m mechanic, good work)

2) the transport squads don't have anything to do apart from supply runs until a squad requires transport

but of course removing the spawn points might not be the best idea.

Rally points keep the action constant, which makes the game more fun!

Firebases are a good teamwork dynamic and give direct firesupport, which is both fun and socially orientated.

And there is always the worry, can the current crop of PR players take the harsh realities of not being able to spawn in convenient places? would it be too stressful? or just not plain fun?

or the double fear, what if all the transport vehicles get blown up? or taken by lonewolf tards for light tank (i.e. fail) duties?



I'd rather a discussion and this to turn in to a suggestion, but perhaps a game mode where there are no rally points or firebases (or no rally points and just firebases) would provide a harsh, realistic experience requiring more teamwork than currently required.

Please discuss!

[Madhouse]

Maybe these elements should be added to CnC? CnC mode was meant to be the 'hardcore' mode.

[charliegrs]

And there is always the worry, can the current crop of PR players take the harsh realities of not being able to spawn in convenient places? would it be too stressful? or just not plain fun?

the current crop of pr players can barely handle the current system. i think what you are suggesting would be best for tournaments or clan matches things of that nature. only for people who play PR for real {i think most forum goers fit this description.} a gamemode with no rallys or firebases will result in whining and empty servers.

[crazy11]

I say do away with rally points, the community will adapt.

[bloodthirsty_viking]

i think just start out by putting it on one mode only, like someone erlier sead, see how it works out, if its a success they can incoperate it, but i dont see it personlly, i like the rally point becuase the removle of the rally point would just make the maps to boring, how many times has a rally point on kashin saved you half an hours walk...

[amazing_retard]

To be honest this is a really bad idea. Your going to have to walk a lot between firefights, and since getting to combat takes longer, your going to have less firefights, and as a result a "Slower game". A lot of people complain PR is too slow as is (I don't agree with them). To be honest I see this change separating squads, and making games into long marches between the FB and battle. Remember we only have 64 people in one battle, the rally simulates a battle with more than 64. In short keep the rally points, sweep enemy areas, and use the new overrun feature to your advantage.

[Wicca]

Now, i think rallies should stay, if you get attacked and you lose a flag, you have a Rally 150 m away, to counter attack which is realistic. But, if its a constant flow of spawning and dying thats no fun, but they already fixed that:

If 3 enemies are close than 25 m the rally goes down.

Or if 6 members of the squad dies within 25 m of the rally, it goes down.

So its much like to much spamming and you lose your spawning advantage, using your brain to figure out where you should place a rally, and get rewarded for your geniousness.

But rudd, if what your getting at is the fact that a squad just attacked DAM and took it, only to be retaliated, and lose it again, they should have a rally in backup, to keep spawning in, keeping the firefight prolonged, and its going to be a game of capture the flag in theory, find the enemys rally before he finds yours and kill as many enemies as possible?

Is that realistic? Maybe, cause in real life, if you take out the command, of a squad, then they lose their "leadership". So i think we should keep rallys, but make the rules for spawning and dying a bit more strict, like if you spawn more than 6 times at a rally, it goes down?

FOB, can only spawn 3 men pr min?

Just suggestions, keep the discussion going!

[DNAz5646]

Id like a DESTROY the enemy base (the main one were choppers and armor spawns.
So u can only spawn from the main base and a high cap.
Id like a mode like that because u have to keep the kits u have alive going sneakily across the map to the main enemy base and blow (the command truck?) up to win.

[Jedimushroom]

I think this mechanic would only work for maps with sufficient transport, perhaps it could be implemented to those maps only...

EDIT: Rudd you posted this at 5 in the morning! Enough PR, get some sleep!

[Alex6714]

Make me think also, of rather than rally points you have a gamemode in which flag spawns are returned, however only the flag 2 flags back from the front, ie, not the attackable one.

Like, as you move down the front you set up camp in the safe captured territory, thats where the reinforcements come from (however no or very little vehicles spawn there), then move onto the territory under attack.

The flag spawn would only come up after the next flag has been capped and would disappear when it is lost.

Maybe this is represented by firebases I guess, but it could be rather interesting.

[Outlawz7]

What about maps where you don't have air transport or any sort of transport is impossible (OGT, Tad Sae).

At most the MEC/PLA factions would have bigger issues as they aren't issued choppers to fly them back like the USMC/USA/UK on most maps.

[Rudd]

When explaining to my army buddies, who I've talked into trying PR, I generally describe the rally point as an 'RV', or Rendezvous, en route.

Agreed, the rally point definitely portrays a realistic aspect of modern warfare. the problem with the rally point is that the reinforcements don't have to come from the main, or a road etc, they just materialise, bringing the realism in to question.

Outlawz has a good point, some maps don't have alot of transport, or at least transport that will be running throughout the match.

What of changes to the rally point dynamic to make it more realisitic, harsher yet preserving fun and fluidity?

What about a rally point that only allows 6-12 spawns on it? (if codable)

this will do several things, make the RP more realistic, i.e. not inexhaustable supply of reinforcements.

Also, how many times have you seen a squad attack the same objective unsucessfully over and over? This would prevent stupid attrition wars

Though, It might be circumventable by just placing a new rally....

[DankE_SPB]

the problem with the rally point is that the reinforcements don't have to come from the main, or a road etc, they just materialise, bringing the realism in to question.

irl, way more than 64 people take part in combat, so while somebody fighting, others are moving to front, if you remove all spawnpoints on map, this will lead into 1 squad fighting, and 4 squads moving into front imo, thats not good

if you take kashan as example, there is already lack of inf, because a lot of peeps are using armor, helis etc.
only maps i see where it could work are Mestia, Tad Sae, Asad Khal
conclusion, i disagree at this stage of PR, this will make game really boring(its already takes sometimes 10 or more minutes to walk to combat in some cases)
if in future bigger scale will be implemented(more available players on server), we can return to this question, but still you need some resps not far from front, only FOB's w/o RP i.e.

[Orthas]

With the maps we have and 64p limit, convenient spawns are much needed. But what we should look into is improving these mechanics.

About rally points, what I'd like to see is that rally points are made much harder to use. One example would be that either the SL or two or three other members of the squad must be next to the rally for anyone to be able to spawn in there. This way getting reinforcements would require some effort and wiping a squad out would result in them being put significantly back (spawn from Firebase). Coupled with the current system of 3 guys within 50m destroying rally, this would lead to rally's being put in safe locations but still need to be accessible because someone would have to keep coming back to rally for spawn. This would also eliminate the problem of enemies randomly spawning as someone from the squad would have to keep going back to rally for others to spawn. One problem could rise with SLs camping at rally so maybe make the requirements even stricter (everyone alive from squad near rally? Or everyone but one?).

As many have said, Firebases are good. They promote teamwork and enable many kind of strategies. And they're relatively easy to destroy if left undefended. If they're to be even more vulnerable (which I think is good idea) maybe impose limits to spawning if enemies are nearby (5+ hostiles within 100m and can't spawn). This would eliminate all kind of spawn camping and would make Firebases even more important, especially when coupled with my first suggestion where squads could be wiped out completely.

[Jigsaw]

An interesting dynamic; rally points.

When explaining to my army buddies, who I've talked into trying PR, I generally describe the rally point as an 'RV', or Rendezvous, en route.

Thats exactly how I try and use rally points atm. Whenever I am preparing my squad for an assault I will set a rally in a decent location preferably a good distance from the fighting and then have them drop ammo bags at the RP so it can also act as a resupply should we need ammo.

The way I see it in PR however is that the rally appears to represent as you say, a flow of troops to an area. This I believe is wrong as imo a firebase should fulfill this function.

I would therefore very much like to see RPs removed or preferably coded (if possible) to allow only 12 spawns after which it disappears. This I think much better represents the use of an RP as an RV for a squad (translate platoon in RL) size unit.

I say do away with rally points, the community will adapt.

This however is also a very valid point.

Definitely would disagree however with removing firebases from the game, they promote teamwork and their removal coupled with a re-think on RPs would seriously hamper the "fun" factor of the game.

Edit:

What about a rally point that only allows 6-12 spawns on it? (if codable)

this will do several things, make the RP more realistic, i.e. not inexhaustable supply of reinforcements.

Also, how many times have you seen a squad attack the same objective unsucessfully over and over? This would prevent stupid attrition wars

Though, It might be circumventable by just placing a new rally....

Lol, just read your post properly and noticed you said basically the same thing

I think that yes it would be circumventable, however either this could be stopped by being unable to place a new rally for a set time after your rally disappears (already in game) or it could be left as you would still need to have 2 SMs with the SL to set the new one which if your squad is under fire and taking casualties could prove difficult.

[RedAlertSF]

There are not always transport squads and if there are, they aren't good always.

Removing rally points is worst suggestion so far. Seriously, rounds get longer but combat time gets shorter. Many things have changed, but this would drop amount of players, not increase it.

However it might be nice to see this in CnC. Players who play it are playing more seriously so it might work.

[Rudd]

but this would drop amount of players, not increase it.

Why is everyone worried about keeping population sizes up?

vbf2 was the game designed around max player counts and sales

[Pure_beef]

I play this game for the teamwork and for the fun. What you have suggested would stop the flow of the game and make it incredibly boring. Nobody wants to have to walk 900m to attack an enemy then get wasted only to find out they have to walk another 900m again.

Sorry but its a bad idea