Are players used to the 30 seconds of waiting ?

[CodeRedFox]

We have an internal discussion about this as well so we are listening to everything here as well. Just to put down the idea that we don't listen

My idea has been make a Rally Point a Rally Point. Which means that in order to spawn at a rally you would need one of two ideas.

Rallying/Spawning at a RP

• All current rules apply except
• Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn
• Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

And that's been my basic idea. The issue I have always had about Rally Points is they are not rally point so much as player placed spawns points. They require no rallying of any kinda to function.

[Cpt. Trips]

CodeRedFox;994472']We have an internal discussion about this as well so we are listening to everything here as well. Just to put down the idea that we don't listen

My idea has been make a Rally Point a Rally Point. Which means that in order to spawn at a rally you would need one of two ideas.

Rallying/Spawning at a RP

• All current rules apply except
• Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn
• Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

And that's been my basic idea. The issue I have always had about Rally Points is they are not rally point so much as player placed spawns points. They require no rallying of any kinda to function.

Sorry to post count + 1 but I gotta say that I like those ideas a lot.

[cyberzomby]

Yea I can see why you would put that in. That way you have to fall back when 3 guys go down and you can make a new assault.

Arent you afraid that the enemy, who already is overpowering you is going to track you down and kill you all at the rally and destroy you completely? Or is that part of the fun of this possible new rule?

[Jaymz]

The issue I have always had about Rally Points is they are not rally point so much as player placed spawns points. They require no rallying of any kinda to function.

When I say "remove RP's", I'm really trying to say "remove spawning on RP's". Let's look at three different cases. 0.85 current, 0.85 with RP's that require SL presence for spawning and PR with RP's that have no spawnpoint attached.




The situation

• I'm attacking a flag with my six-man squad
• There is an RP 100m away
• Four of my men, including my medic, have gone down within one minute of each other

PR 0.85 with the current RP setup

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, so each of our comrades will be back in the order they went down in. Once more, even if myself or the other survivor go down, 30 seconds later we'll be only 100m away so what's the problem?

The assault cycle of the RP continues....



Alternative : Why do anything other than this until our RP goes down?




PR 0.85 with the proposed RP setup (requires SL presence for spawn)

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, we both toss smoke and fall back to the RP. Before we have even let our smoke disperse properly, all the four guys are able to spawn. I tell them "don't spawn back at the FO/Main, wait until we get back to the RP"

We get back to the RP, the four guys spawn and we've regrouped.

Alternative : Once we've regrouped we could chose to fall back or attack again.




PR 0.85 with no spawning on RP's

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, we both toss smoke and fall back to the RP. Before we have even let our smoke disperse properly, all the four guys are able to spawn. I tell them "spawn back at the nearest FO and make your way to the rally point"

We get back to the RP and await our four other men. Once they arrive, we will have actually rallied at the rally point.

Alternative : Instead of doing that, I could have told the other members to spawn and defend the nearest FO while myself and the other survivor retreat back and meet them.

[Mj Pain]

CodeRedFox;994472']

My idea has been make a Rally Point a Rally Point. Which means that in order to spawn at a rally you would need one of two ideas.

Rallying/Spawning at a RP

• All current rules apply except
• Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn
• Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

[/B]

This is it.

[CodeRedFox]

Arent you afraid that the enemy, who already is overpowering you is going to track you down and kill you all at the rally and destroy you completely?

Better cover that retreat using smoke and fire

This is it.

Is that a questions or are you agreeing with me. If its a question then no its just a idea.


Also

I noticed I left out an important "OR" on:

# Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn OR
# Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

[OkitaMakoto]

Agree with CRF pretty much completely.

CRF, you complete me



OH, but to add to it, the SL can spawn on the rally with no requirements... thats just my opinion though, CRF and I might disagree here for once... and the world will explode...

Though I guess if you had a rule for 2 or 3 SM to allow spawning then the SL could spawn in then, but to me, the idea of having 4 or 5 members dead and thus completely not being able to use the rallypoint would be pretty frustrating. Allowing the SL to spawn in, and then followed by everyone else due to his presence would be a good idea in my opinion...

but thats just my opinion on that...

[McBumLuv]

Seems like a good idea. As I've said previously in this thread, rally points should still be important if only figuratively as places to rendez-vous, but I quite like CRF's idea.

[Dr Rank]

Yeah, on the same page as you two chaps, CRF and OkitaMakoto

[Gore]

Totally agree with Fox. Most of the time RP spawning is like lambs to the slaughterhouse.

[CodeRedFox]

The only issue I see is players getting pissed at each other for not returning to the RP to help the respawn. But does keep teamwork a requirement/reward as no one wants to spawn back at base. But if they need to because of poor planning (which I think will happen allot) then we still have people respawning back at base and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Hopefully we would see more "pulling out" (need to regroup) instead of fighting to the death (knowing your hidden rally point is not far off)

[Zoddom]

When I say "remove RP's", I'm really trying to say "remove spawning on RP's". Let's look at three different cases. 0.85 current, 0.85 with RP's that require SL presence for spawning and PR with RP's that have no spawnpoint attached. ]

Sorry but .... whats the meaning of RP's when we cant spawn on them?

[OkitaMakoto]

Sorry but .... whats the meaning of RP's when we cant spawn on them?

He means simply a a place to regroup at. A physical, designated area of the map to get to and meet up, either from retreating, or from coming in from a firbase/apc etc


And @ CRF, actually, yeah, maybe NOT allowing the SL to be able to spawn in on the Rally would be better... since if he had that ability, itd be similar to now in that youd ALWAYS have a way to spawn in on it...

This way, the only way would be to have a majority still alive.

One down side/annoyance I see is that say you just took over an area, you lost two guys... you now have to tell them "Tough luck", send a group to allow them to respawn, or set a newer rally up close to you...


Maybe remove some restrictions on where rallys can and cant be placed? Idk, just trying to cover all the areas of RPs while we're discussing this potential change[requiring members to enable spawn]

[Jigsaw]

Completely and utterly agree with CRF on this. Increases teamwork, stops repetitive spammy combat, forces retreat (something not practiced enough in PR) etc etc. It is perfect.

@Zoddom do you know what RP stands for? Rally Point. As CRF says in the current set up the "rally points" require no form of rallying to function, they are just player deployed spawns and are in that sense not much better than 'nilla SL spawning.

Perhaps if you could not spawn then it can simply act as a waypoint or RV (rendezvous) to regroup the squad, perhaps in combination with a couple of the other ideas about RPs giving limited health etc.

@Okita, don't think there'd be a problem with a couple players going down in an attack, if you have cleared the area then chances are they can be revived. Or you can just set a new rally as you move the line forward.

And yeah SL shouldn't be able to spawn unless the other conditions are met, just like the rest of the squad.

[SocketMan]

We have an internal discussion about this as well so we are listening to everything here as well. Just to put down the idea that we don't listen

It's more of a who you're listening too

About the 30 seconds - another reason to have more then one computer:no need to ALT-TAB just use the second keyboard+monitor for porn (or whatever) and you're
still in game able to move to cover if/when revived.
I hate dying/getting shot more then I like killing people,but atm there is no
death when playing infantry and maps like Mestia you'd just run 5 medics in a squad
and nothing can stop you.Do I like 5 medics in 1 squad? Hell no,but it works.
Now back to 30 seconds again -if RP's were gone the time can be reduced no
question about that if not well 30 is not that bad compare to Collaborators.

About the RP - "a place to meet up or regroup" how often do you hear:
"Meet back at RP to regroup" and you can't re-arm from it afaik anymore.
I don't mind spawning from APC's it would/did simulate reinforcements from the Personal Carrier.
If that could be limited to 12 (or so spawns that would be great imo)

[SocketMan]

Jaymz;994554']When I say "remove RP's", I'm really trying to say "remove spawning on RP's". Let's look at three different cases. 0.85 current, 0.85 with RP's that require SL presence for spawning and PR with RP's that have no spawnpoint attached.




The situation

• I'm attacking a flag with my six-man squad
• There is an RP 100m away
• Four of my men, including my medic, have gone down within one minute of each other

PR 0.85 with the current RP setup

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, so each of our comrades will be back in the order they went down in. Once more, even if myself or the other survivor go down, 30 seconds later we'll be only 100m away so what's the problem?

The assault cycle of the RP continues....



Alternative : Why do anything other than this until our RP goes down?




PR 0.85 with the proposed RP setup (requires SL presence for spawn)

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, we both toss smoke and fall back to the RP. Before we have even let our smoke disperse properly, all the four guys are able to spawn. I tell them "don't spawn back at the FO/Main, wait until we get back to the RP"

We get back to the RP, the four guys spawn and we've regrouped.

Alternative : Once we've regrouped we could chose to fall back or attack again.




PR 0.85 with no spawning on RP's

Myself and the surviving squad member are under fire and outnumbered but our RP is only 100m away, we both toss smoke and fall back to the RP. Before we have even let our smoke disperse properly, all the four guys are able to spawn. I tell them "spawn back at the nearest FO and make your way to the rally point"

We get back to the RP and await our four other men. Once they arrive, we will have actually rallied at the rally point.

Alternative : Instead of doing that, I could have told the other members to spawn and defend the nearest FO while myself and the other survivor retreat back and meet them.

You grab your fallen medic's kit (right away and he should be near SL at all times) and lay smoke then revive you're entire squad.
Works regardless of RP characteristics.

[fuzzhead]

You grab your fallen medic's kit (right away and he should be near SL at all times) and lay smoke then revive you're entire squad.
Works regardless of RP characteristics.

Now you have a squad full of bleeding people that cant see straight and are about to die, and are grouping up to get healed by the medic, one grenade killing them all.

[Rudd]

Now you have a squad full of bleeding people that cant see straight and are about to die, and are grouping up to get healed by the medic, one grenade killing them all.

or at least the SL might not have his Officer kit, and you know that its just logical that would be the time the RP would go down

[cyberzomby]

Now coderedfox, one way to abuse it is to just let the SL stay as a rally defender. I mean people could assault and take objectives when there was still SL spawning right?

And in the general idea of this thread and its new "rules": Wouldnt this make the CO position even harder? Since you cant really rely that much on squads anymore. I mean now when you see there rally's up you know they are probably going to keep a presence in that area. But with the no spawning or even CRF's idea you just dont know I guess. I think it makes it realistic ofcourse but a lot harder. And that usualy tanslates to: Not fun for most players and no commanders (just like now)

[SkaterCrush]

Ok I only read till 4th page (pheer teh wall of textz) and this past page, so sorry if I resuggest somethings. Why not remove a smoke from the squady and put the rally point, with an ammo of one, and a resupply time of 40 seconds or so (at a supply crate ofc), also make the RPs temporary (1-2 mins), so they serve something as a regroup point or can even be part of a metaphor for a para drop. If you don't implement that you could do something along the lines of not being able to put a rally within 200m of a FOB. Theres also (like someone said I think) of putting up indestructible spawn point up after you get past a moving area (not sure how you would do that on insurgency), OR even some thing like pre-made FOB that spawns somewhere on the map on bigger maps, like Operation Archer, when you destroy enough caches.