Aiming of the BH miniguns

hachichin · Post by **hachichin** » 2006-05-18 19:14

This might have been covered already but I just want to lobby for putting some kind of sights on the BH's miniguns. This would really help for maps like Muttrah city (although if you implement the AH-6's this would solve the problem too).

I don't much about the real-life use of miniguns, but do they really have no kind of rudimentary sights? Do the gunners just "hipshoot" them? If having sights on them is a no-no what about tracerrounds? That would help the aiming too. Now they are not efficient enough to provide protection beyond close-range. It's just spray and pray as it is now, esp. if the pilot has to move fast and irregular.

Of course with a lot of practice someone could learn to use these, even without any sights, but how often would one have the pleasure of getting a gunner like that on public servers?

the.ultimate.maverick · Post by **the.ultimate.maverick** » 2006-05-18 19:16

I back the idea of tracers. Now, I just fire, see where the wall plaster is flying off and then I know where I'm hitting.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-18 19:24

I second the idea of tracers they have them in r/l and it would be invaualbe in helping to aim.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-18 19:25

well people have shown me enought videos of minigun tracers, so have to agree.
Shows how alittle PR works at perswading people! I looks like lasers, very cool for gunners and people miles away (brutal for poor sods on ground where it lands).

"CAN I HAVE SOME MORE" TRACERS ON MY MINIGUN "PLEASE SIR"

p.s TOPcats supports counts as 10 people becuaase of his heratige and connections with many eminent characters!

solipsism · Post by **solipsism** » 2006-05-18 22:14

Good for realism, but probably bad for balance, as the minigun is devasting on levels like masthur, fire a quick spotting spot, or whatever you want to call it, and esimate from there. I like to fire the warning spot ahead like a sniper, then work my way back. Plus its fun watching them try to run away before they realize its a minigun.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-18 22:44

Tape an ACOG to the top and there you go.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-18 22:47

I think the .50s and miniguns need tracers. The little yellow dot on the .50 is so unrealistic and annoying. It takes no real skill to kill anything with it.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-19 01:49

The .50's and bipods need the camera adjusted to the sights, nothing short of that will do.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-05-19 02:30

Tracers will be increased on the minigun, as from what I understand they are the primary (and in some cases only) means of aiming it. According to Noetheinner, a USMC Huey crewchief, it does look like a laser. As for other sighting systems, I have only seen a sight on the Marine GAU-17s:

(High-res here)

I have seen a similar, if not identical sight attached to Navy/Marine GAU-16 .50 caliber MGs. Don't think I've seen it fitted to USAF or Army guns, though.

OverwatchX · Post by **OverwatchX** » 2006-05-19 02:43

six7 wrote:I think the .50s and miniguns need tracers. The little yellow do on the .50 is so unrealistic and annoying. It takes no real skill to kill anything with it.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a must in my book

SilvuR · Post by **SilvuR** » 2006-05-19 03:01

The miniguns do fire some sort of tracer, however the velocity of the rounds are so high that the bullet has already impacted the dirt before the tracer is actually visible. The only time I have ever seen them is if you fire off into the sky and you see a very faint light which appears to be a tracer. The only fix I can see is to slow down the velocity of the rounds.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-19 03:16

Tracers ned to be mroe visible. A bright red color would be perfect, and fired much more often than currently.
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hachichin · Post by **hachichin** » 2006-05-19 11:13

SilvuR wrote:The miniguns do fire some sort of tracer, however the velocity of the rounds are so high that the bullet has already impacted the dirt before the tracer is actually visible. The only time I have ever seen them is if you fire off into the sky and you see a very faint light which appears to be a tracer. The only fix I can see is to slow down the velocity of the rounds.

You have actually seen this? Are you sure that those were real tracers? Sounds weird. The bullets aren't faster than the speed of light. Is there some sort of delay in the "lighting up" of a tracer round as it exits the barrel?

Eagle · Post by **Eagle** » 2006-05-19 11:39

I doubt it would, from some web browsing, it looks like the strontium used in the red tracer would ignite when the round it fired. Tracers should be implemented, but perhaps only in maps where the vis. isn't too high. Also, if implemented, I think that Russian tracers might be a different colour, perhaps a nice contrast from the US's red.

mavit · Post by **mavit** » 2006-05-19 18:15

the video of the cobra on google is amazing.....having tracers in night maps would be amazing...i think the green cross on the 50. cal should be removed as it isnt at all realistic it would help if there were tracers to help aim instead

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-19 19:17

Eagle wrote:Also, if implemented, I think that Russian tracers might be a different colour, perhaps a nice contrast from the US's red.

The Ruskies and their affiliates (the MEC and China respectivly) currently use a beautiful shade of green

DCurrahee · Post by **DCurrahee** » 2006-05-20 04:07

I'm fairly certain that tracers are tipped or coated in white phosphorous that ignites on contact with the atmosphere, that then starts the burning of the magnesium or whatever elemental fuel you want for different colors.(don't you remember science class?) There are several types though, some burn slowly as to not give the position of the shooter away. That way once the bright fuel starts to burn it's already a couple hundred yards away from the shooter - keeping his position a little safer. That seems to be what's happening with these tracers.

Also tracer rounds fall off at a much sharper trajectory since their mass gets smaller and smaller as they burn. The ones Ive used (non military) burn out at about 50-100 yards or so. But they're not 20mm or .50

$.02

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-05-20 04:52

Trying to hit things without that little aiming point and using only tracers is very difficult against a bright sky. Do not remove the .50 or stationary MG's aiming points until ironsights are availible. I would also strongly suggest modeling those minigun sights no matter what is done with the tracers.

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2006-05-20 10:13

the red tracer the british army use for 5.56mm rifles is very visible during the day. you could see rounds hitting stones/hard objects at a couple of hundred metres and richocets going straight up into the air

the training shotgun round in the RPG was known to set fir e to vehicle canvases on ranges.

Both rounds caused bush fires that had to be beaten out from time to time around ranges.

Tracers are one of the most useful spotting devices there are to a section, all infantry should get them, an extra firing type could be rotated through : auto/single/tracer that would make realism greater. This would necessitate removing the mini radar though. Then we are going to see tracers racing across the map to know where enemies are, rather than red blobs on the mini map going round several corners and you managing to find the enemy. now you only know their last location IF you watched the tracer.

maybe add a voice command? can you record and implement/replace an existing one? "Watch my tracer! Watch my tracer!"

I've loaded up an L85A1 with full tracer on several occassions when on the ranges and stood in trenches resting the rifle in front of me and simply firing on full auto I've led the rounds onto targets, just for a laugh. It's really funny and does work. So tracers on the miniguns would work the same way, leading the rounds onto target should be death from above.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2006-05-20 15:05

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']Tracers will be increased on the minigun, as from what I understand they are the primary (and in some cases only) means of aiming it. According to Noetheinner, a USMC Huey crewchief, it does look like a laser. As for other sighting systems, I have only seen a sight on the Marine GAU-17s:

(High-res here)

I have seen a similar, if not identical sight attached to Navy/Marine GAU-16 .50 caliber MGs. Don't think I've seen it fitted to USAF or Army guns, though.

Yeah, the Gau-17 does have a sight, and I suppose that you "could" use it.We never did though for a couple of reasons. When you focus in on that sight, you are cutting down your situational awarness of EVERYTHING ELSE around you. So not only do you not notice the other 5 guys on the rooftop to your left, but the other helicopter in your flight also. What if you start shooting backwards, your pilot suddenly makes a sharp turn, and now you're firing rounds across the nose of your buddy? Also, the sights were made for range calculations. They actually want Marines to do geometry in their heads while preparing to shoot, aquiring the target, scanning for other hostiles and all that good stuff. Simple math is hard enough for us in a classroom much less anywhere else

We just lined up the gun how we thought it should be and pulled the trigger. Sounds a little bit inaccurate I know, and it is at first. But that's why we train and train and train. After that first round goes downrange, then it's just as simple as walking the tracers on target. Yes, the tracers are how we shoot.

Here's something to tell you how worthless the sights are. When you have an external fuel bag stuffed in the back corner of a Huey, you don't fit back there very well. When you do manage to make it back there (fuel in bag is 1/2 gone, you fold down the retaining straps and make yourself a "seat") it's hard to move from there. You can still see everything, but moving your body is a little bit hard. You shoot the gun with one hand then. When shooting and swinging the gun from full foreward to full aft, you start out with one hand, transfer to 2 hands for the middle, then to your other hand when facing full aft.

Conclusion: Sights =

worthless

Tracers =

priceless