C4 vs caches

[rodrigoma]

Are you sure? It kind of sounds plausible but I've never thought to try it. I was under the impression that only certain types of explosions destroyed bridges, like Aircraft bombs, Helicopter Hellfires and C4/IEDs.

yes rpg can easyly destroy a bridge aswell as other rounds

[saXoni]

yes rpg can easyly destroy a bridge aswell as other rounds

Including Hydra-missiles. You just need a couple of them to take out a bridge.

[tankninja1]

caches should be definitely destroyable by C4, because some caches are impossible to kill otherwise e.g. caves caches. If the devs do modify C4s cache killing ability it should take 2 C4 blocks or 1 C4 block and the cache area, say about 5-10m around the cache, should be cleared of enemy.

[illidur]

This is what you wrote: "c4, like the aa kit on blufor, can only do harm to insurgency currently"

Which I read to imply that C4 only serves a purpose in Insurgency mode.

Of course now you're saying that who needs a purpose designed command detonated anti-material device when you can just use some anti-tank weapons instead.

What, are you desperate to imply that C4 is useless and want it gone, or is your sentence structure just really bad and I am completely misunderstanding you?

i meant harm as in "bad". dont want it gone, just brought to the same level as similar powered weapons. but it being removed wouldn't really effect the game much at all, and rifleman AP kit could use some loving for "remote detonated ieds"

i am however for removal of the aa kit on insurgency. it serves no purpose on blufor side, except exploitation. c4 is also being exploited, but even if it could only be used for blowing up cars/trucks as they passed by... not sure how realistic that is.

[ComradeHX]

As long as cache-killing radius is 5m or less(enough to go through one wall or two); is fine to me.

Not place random C4 within 15m of cache and blow up everything.

[BadMad]

I'm wondering what the community thinks of C4 versus caches, namely the ability to throw C4 on a nearby wall and destroy the cache without ever actually seeing it.

Is this a bug or how the game is supposed to work?

Definitely bug, as been said by DEVs.
And that's why it's prohibited on VBIOS servers, and will cause a ban for such behavior.

Moreover that's a bug, in my opinion it's just a pussy-tactic."Oh I can't clear the area, and eliminate all cash-defenders..So like a real pussy and bug user, I'll just gonna grab CE kit, drive to the nearest wall/stone/cave top, place C4 and blow it up (sometimes through the tonnes of stone/soil ground).
Like a Bausss!"

And of course, as 's been said - no any reference to real life.

So the (rhetorical) question is:what just such people have forgotten here, in simulator called Project Reality?
Go to vanilla BF2/BF3 and do your best!-that is perfect field for your tricks.

[godfather_596]

i agree its not often that the cache is blown up by c4 usually if they can manage to plant c4 in most cases they can manage to burn it with grenade maximum at the cost of 1 or 2 more soldiers insurgents anyway shouldnt wait for them to come into the room of the cache thats an invitation to get steamrolled

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Yesterday on =]H[= people were dropping C4 from Hueys on Ramiel Alt, it was awfull. Fly over the cache with a flying tank, drop C4 and repeat for the next cache.

Also since it's DBmod there's so few of them..

[Boris.T.Spider]

i agree its not often that the cache is blown up by c4 usually if they can manage to plant c4 in most cases they can manage to burn it with grenade maximum at the cost of 1 or 2 more soldiers insurgents anyway shouldnt wait for them to come into the room of the cache thats an invitation to get steamrolled

Godfather, I think you have misunderstood how this tactic works, they are not dropping the C4 on the cache, if they were this thread would not even exist. What is happening is they are dropping a C4 within 15m of the cache, usualy on the other side of a wall without windows while under the cover of armour or automatic rifles or from a helicopter, then detonating it destroying the cache.

From the point of veiw of the cache defenders, they are all sitting patiently, some may have been there up to an hour, waiting, coving thier assigned entry points. Next thing they hear is a beep, then the cache explodes next to them, often, barring getting caught in the secondy explosion from the cache they are totaly uninjured. Imagine how demoralising this is, setting up a brilliant defence, building your assets, hideouts, etc, waiting half an hour for a firefight, then for all your effort to be wasted without even seeing a single enemy soldier. It is a far more productive and fun use of your time to drive around in a civy car running people over.

To give you an idea of how easy this is to do, when I was lobbying a server I was playing on regulaly to have this considered an exploit, I gave the other team a step by step running comentry of my C4ing of the cache, I even had time to tell them I had planted it before retreating to a safe distance to blow it up safe in the knowledge that because of the placement of that particular cache there was absolutley nothing they could do to stop me. I took out 4 of the 7 caches in this manner, at one point I was admonished by my own team, not for using a cheap exploit, but because I waited for our troops to clear the area before I killed the cache.

End the Blufor Suicide bomber kit plz Devs, if you cannot, just give the insurgents the abilty to use the C4 kit again and we will see a marked drop in the use of this tactic in a fiery blaze of suicide bikes

[Murphy]

If Blufor can get within 15 meters of the cache room your defense isn't very good now is it?

I have been on the receiving end of the tactic just as often as the next opfor fan boy, but I never once thought it felt like an exploit. The simple fact is that if you allowed enemy to get that close to the cache your defenses cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered "brilliant".

[[md]MadMak[rus]]

If Blufor can get within 15 meters of the cache room your defense isn't very good now is it?

I have been on the receiving end of the tactic just as often as the next opfor fan boy, but I never once thought it felt like an exploit. The simple fact is that if you allowed enemy to get that close to the cache your defenses cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered "brilliant".

Is it a Murphy's law?

The defences are strong till the last man stand IMO, but everything can happen.

[BadMad]

If Blufor can get within 15 meters of the cache room your defense isn't very good now is it?

I have been on the receiving end of the tactic just as often as the next opfor fan boy, but I never once thought it felt like an exploit. The simple fact is that if you allowed enemy to get that close to the cache your defenses cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered "brilliant".

Oh yeah!
I like that kind of "argument".-Just remembering BLUFOR moaning about "Garyying" their Main's, and be reminded by the same "argument":"can't defend your Main - you're pussy".
And now, after DEVs defended your sweety MB's with DOD, you think you can use that "argument" equally?-Remove the DOD back to old versions, and I'll show you how fair enough that "argument" is.

To be clear, I'm not sympathizing to the MB attack at AAS gamemode(cause on this one both sides are relatively equal), but on the Ins gamemode that is not true for a years(after all BLUFOR improvements(such as Thermals, optics, count of RPG hits needed for vehicles to be destroyed, etc..hundreds of them), and in another hand, Insurgent total decreasement.
And that's why I'm totally against such a cheap tricks(and especially bug using, glitching, tweakicng, etc.) that imbalancing that nice gamemode(which is already pretty imbalanced because of previous "fixes".

[smiley]

I remember not very long ago playing as insurgent on Kokan defending the 1st unknown which was in a basement in the J5 compound. We spawned on it at the start of the round and waited knowing that it was a popular place for blufor to build a fob. When they indeed did this we mortared them and waited some more.
Eventually the cache became known and after we killed the first 2 squads that tried to get in they rolled up with 2 LAVs and we heard the familiar beep of the C4 outside and 5 seconds later cache was destroyed.
When I typed up "lol" I was told that I should learn to defend my perimeters which made me lol even more.

The point is that nowadays it's increasingly common for the blufor fanboys to never want to even get near the cache if they can C4 it, HAT it,TOW it or get an APC to kill it by shooting through the windows.All these so called tactics are almost impossible to defend against.

These are the same people who never and I mean never ever play as opfor because it's more of a challenge. On a certain UK server they come out of the woodwork in droves when it's an insurgent map so they can get their assets and easy kills without much effort and then disappear after one round so they don't have to play as insurgents the next round only to reappear 3 rounds later to rinse and repeat.

The amount of incendiary grenades needed to kill a cache was increased to try and stop lonewolves killing a cache on their own, and now it's gone to the ridiculous situation we have now where one person with a CE kit can rush a cache and kill it without even finding it. A simple solution to this might be to increase the range of where the cache might be from the marker so at least making it harder to get the right building because as it is right now it's almost unplayable on some maps.

[Boris.T.Spider]

If Blufor can get within 15 meters of the cache room your defense isn't very good now is it?

I have been on the receiving end of the tactic just as often as the next opfor fan boy, but I never once thought it felt like an exploit. The simple fact is that if you allowed enemy to get that close to the cache your defenses cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered "brilliant".

Less than one meter away from your cache room can be a 400m stretch of open ground owned by apcs and auto rifles, sometimes the cache can be less than a meter away from a 200m long wall with no doors or windows. These are open areas with no cover and the insurgents are utterly reliant on ambushes and CQC lacking the tools to hold these areas. Even if I were to order people to defend these locations, they would be dead in seconds, if not by the APCs and AR's they would just end up roadkilled by an engineer in a Hummer.

When I can tell the insurgents exactly where I am going to be, when I am going to be there and what strategey I will be using and 20 men are still unable to defend against one guy in a hummer, there can be no defence. Even if they luck out and kill the engy the 1st time, he can just respawn in main, go make a coffee, come back in 10 minutes by which time the engineer kit will be back in the pool and the hummer respawned, 2 minutes after that, the INS need to get lucky again. This in my view makes this definatley an exploit.

[smiley]

Less than one meter away from your cache room can be a 400m stretch of open ground owned by apcs and auto rifles, sometimes the cache can be less than a meter away from a 200m long wall with no doors or windows. These are open areas with no cover and the insurgents are utterly reliant on ambushes and CQC lacking the tools to hold these areas. Even if I were to order people to defend these locations, they would be dead in seconds, if not by the APCs and AR's they would just end up roadkilled by an engineer in a Hummer.

When I can tell the insurgents exactly where I am going to be, when I am going to be there and what strategey I will be using and 20 men are still unable to defend against one guy in a hummer, there can be no defence. Even if they luck out and kill the engy the 1st time, he can just respawn in main, go make a coffee, come back in 10 minutes by which time the engineer kit will be back in the pool and the hummer respawned, 2 minutes after that, the INS need to get lucky again. This in my view makes this definatley an exploit.

I think Boris has summed it up nicely. On some caches,yes it's possible to defend a perimeter but on others with all the assets pounding you and mortars and helos spamming you from the air the only thing you can do is hide in a building and hope.

[Souls Of Mischief]

Question to DEVs- is the C4 exploit ever get fixed? If not, I strongly encourage servers to forbid using C4 against caches or allowing INS to use the enemy engineer kit to place C4's on bikes and cars. If the BlueFor loose the kit, they should be punished by it. *Points finger at PRTA*

[Cassius]

Maybe the gamemode should be changed the way, that blueforce in addition to destroying the cache has to capture the flag, which is the cache area and only then it takes damage.

[Stealthgato]

allowing INS to use the enemy engineer kit to place C4's on bikes and cars. If the BlueFor loose the kit, they should be punished by it. *Points finger at PRTA*

They don't allow it there now? I've done it before there and it was fine...

[Kingy]

Always have considered using C4 to kill caches a cheat, never allow my sm's to use it when I'm squad leading. I miss the times when using the Engi kit on INS had serious repercussions, use the kit and kill the cache, congratulations, lose the kit when assaulting the cache and the ins will be blowing you up on every corner of every street.
Making the Engineer kit no longer team restricted again would put an end to this issue, or just plain removal of the kit from INS.