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Nice work Specter but I still think this needs a bit of work yet.

First of all I still think the colour and brightness needs a bit of tweaking.

Here's the version you sent me:



And here's after I've done a bit of colour, hue/saturation and brightness tweaking to the entire sheet since I only had the .dds to work from so some things have been affected that didn't need to be:



Ref:


Really these colour tweaks need to be done on your .psd so other stuff isn't affected but I think that's a pretty good colour target myself

Also on your AO Map, I would suggest you don't have it on 100% opacity as things are very, very rarely 100% black/fully in shadow in real life other than at the bottom of the deepest darkest caves since light comes from everywhere and bounces all over the place. I say this because some parts of your texture are 100% black from your AO map where they really shouldn't be. I normally have my AO map's opacity at around 90%, sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less depending on the object which then means things in shadow are not 100% black, only 90% black but are still got a tiny bit of light on them
Only exception to this rule I normally have is where you want a bottomless hole like down a rifle barrel or in your case, the bottomless hole your detonator thing fits into in the FMK-1, which brings me onto my next point.


Not sure what your trying to do here but looks like you might be trying to show a screw thread but its simply not working
Firstly the hole isn't bottomless, ie, not 100% black shadow from around its 1/2 way point to the end. Take the Scorpion Barrel that lucky quoted when originally talking about this back in post #49 and you will see what I mean:

But your real problem is the screw thread thing your trying to do here which is looking super odd from the side on where its most likley to be seen:

TBH your far better off just having a flat colour with a endless bottom shadow. If you really want to do a thread then your better off doing it with the normal map and far less with the diffuse, but you would need a much higher rez texture to really do it and you would need to do it quite differently from what you have but tbh, you don't need any of that in this case. If you look at my scorpion barrel's rifling side on, since its pretty high rez (mainly since I had plenty of unused space on the texture sheet to use) and also supporting it though the normal and spec map it works quite well side on:

So ye, I recommend just having a flatish grey colour or something, with a bottomless shadow with also like my scorpion barrel, having the shadow at the top being closer to the front than the bottom and then it should work fine


Going by the refs (although most aren't under natural light) this is quite a shiniey object and right now your spec isn't doing much so I suggest bumping it up quite a bit so its doing something more

Before:



After:




As for your normal map, its looking good although still a few small fixes that you could try to clean up with photoshop? Mainly on the corners of the FMK-3 is still the worse ones but ye, they are pretty tricky to fix:



Lasty on your watermarks, personally I don't bother with them (mainly as it never crosses my mind to do them ) but if your going to do them, you should firstly hide them far better, making them stick out like that means anyone who even takes a glance at the file is going to see them and can easily brush them out if they wanted to try and plagiarise the work. Your better off hiding them in the spec or normal map or something where people aren't going to see them so easily and make them very subtle for two reasons, the first is so they can't be so easily spotted as I said and secondly, so they don't bleed into the main texture. Right now your ones, especially your name is really going to bleed in the mips into the corner of the FMK-3 etc
You should have them as far away as possible from the UVs so they don't bleed while right now it looks right on the edge.


Other than that its looking good and keep up the good work!
Also two last points, normal textures without the alpha channel being used should be saved in DXT1 with no alpha, not DXT5 as DXT5 doubles the size when you don't need it unless your using the alpha channel and also when you send me textures, please send me the .psd or very minimum some .tga or some other high quality images, although best .psd especially for the final texture so its firstly backed up and I can upload it to our Assets repo and then if we need to do any fixes/changes we easily can with also no re-re-re-compression issues like we've had when we've only had .dds files to work with
So ye, fine to send me .dds textures, saves me having to save them myself to test them but please, send me the .psd too so any changes that are needed in the future can be easily done, and if the texture is saved incorrectly like your normal map is in this case, then I don't need to re-re-compress it, loosing quite a bit of detail

Cheers!

bumpy, any progress here Specter?

Yup, just PMed you with the files.

EDIT: Here's a quick preview

Awesome cheers looks good

If I'm being picky for future feedback mainly is you should possibly put a bit more work into your seams like these ones on the corners but other than that, looking good, keep up the good work!

Now will just need to look into getting it properly exported, animated and coded it

BTW Specter are you up for making the 3p models and textures for this and also possibly having a go at exporting this as per this tutorial? https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... apons.html

Would be awesome if you could do this as we don't have the manpower to do this right now and would also mean you getting experience in doing this too

Cheers!

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1954721']BTW Specter are you up for making the 3p models and textures for this and also possibly having a go at exporting this as per this tutorial? https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... apons.html

Would be awesome if you could do this as we don't have the manpower to do this right now and would also mean you getting experience in doing this too

Cheers!

I've always wanted to know the ins and outs of finishing up a model.

Right now tho RL is a little in the way so I'd have to put it on hold for a week or two until my schedule clears up. If you can't find anybody to do it between now and then, I'd be happy to take a look at your monster tutorial do 3p & LODs

Yep that's fine, best you finish off your own model as you know your way around it and we can wait that long as Chuc is inactive at the mo and going to have to wait for him to come back to animate it

bumpy, have you managed to make any progress on this Specter?

Not yet ??:

Unfortunately I won't be back to my computer for at least another week before I can start on the 3p and exporting. I'm certainly willing to give it all a try once I get back tho

But if you know of someone else that has the time to pick it up before then don't hesitate to hand it off to them

Nope that sounds good, was just curious on the status, cheers!

Alright after a good hiatus I took some time to try out the 3p models as per Rhino's tutorial.

Step1: Making sure 1p models are final
I'm assuming this to be true

Step2: Creating 3p Low Poly Models

So here's my first attempt after a bit of work. The FMK-3 I started from scratch (1st method) and the rest I copied the 1p models and removed some edges.



So the 3p is on the left in white if you couldn't tell.

On the smaller parts I decided to take a lot of edges out and just keep the basic shape. You can tell on the FMK-1 and rope. I'm sure it needs a lot of work still but I'm looking for some advice. The 3p model will still be seen up close but not as close as the 1p model and certainly not as frequently so hopefully it's ok to take this many edges off the 1p and keep the basic silhouette.

The 1p model (all parts) came in at 1994 tris. I knocked it down to 912 tris on the 3p lod0.

Did I go too far? did I not go far enough? Just looking for feedback and I hope to get the majority of this baby knocked out for Rhino and in-game

Nice work so far but there is more you can do

3===SPECTER===3 wrote:Step1: Making sure 1p models are final
I'm assuming this to be true

Indeed, it looked good to me

3===SPECTER===3 wrote:On the smaller parts I decided to take a lot of edges out and just keep the basic shape. You can tell on the FMK-1 and rope. I'm sure it needs a lot of work still but I'm looking for some advice.

For the most part it looks good but still a bit more work that can be done, will go into that later

3===SPECTER===3 wrote:The 3p model will still be seen up close but not as close as the 1p model and certainly not as frequently so hopefully it's ok to take this many edges off the 1p and keep the basic silhouette.

Just to make it clear encase there is any confusion the 1st Person (1p) model will not be seen in 3rd Person (3p), you will only see the 1p model when holding it in your own hands, not someone elses or when its dropped on the ground.

So ye you do need to keep its base shape / silhouette but pretty much all the details can be done though the textures

3===SPECTER===3 wrote:The 1p model (all parts) came in at 1994 tris. I knocked it down to 912 tris on the 3p lod0.

Did I go too far? did I not go far enough? Just looking for feedback and I hope to get the majority of this baby knocked out for Rhino and in-game

Yep nice work so far but the most important thing about the 3p model isn't actually its reduction in tris, that's only the 3rd most important part, the 1st is draw calls, which actually isn't so relevant here as it is for an assault rifle or something using lots of different calls for its scope, hand grip etc, but the 2nd most important point is reduction in texture usage, which is the most important part for you. This means the fewer faces you have to UV map, the more texture space you can save on your sheet which then goes hand in hand with reduction of tris

But anyways enough with confusing you here are a few tweaks I think you can do


Now the first thing to consider is how much this is actually going to be animated in 3p. Normally we don't actually do much in the terms of 3p animations thing these kinda things unfortunately. When I did my 3p model of the water container IED I included both the container and the pressure pad in the 3p model, but when Chuc came to animate it he removed the pressure pad from the 3p model export and in the 3p animations you only see the guy holding the Water Container and don't see the pressure pad, which means about 1/3 of the 3p textures went to waste.

For this model, I can only possible see one thing that should be separated and that's the FMK-1 from the FMK-3, not just because this might be animated in 3p but because they are two different weapons too. Everything else I can't see animated in 3p so they don't need to be separated. As such delete the pin, delete the top face of the body of the FMK-1 with those lips on the top which you wouldn't have needed either as they would have baked fine, and delete the underside of the lid and then weld them together

Next for the FMK-1 I would delete the bits on the side, they should bake onto the sides perfectly fine, although keep a backup encase you run into problems
Also when it comes to baking bake it with the pin inserted.

Lastly the handle doesn't need to be hollow, so you can delete the inside faces and cap the ends, as well cutting up the rope so it doesn't go though the handle, just joins up to the end and you can remove quite a few edges from the rope still too
Other than that, looking good and keep up the good work!

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:the most important thing about the 3p model isn't actually its reduction in tris, that's only the 3rd most important part, the 1st is draw calls, which actually isn't so relevant here as it is for an assault rifle or something using lots of different calls for its scope, hand grip etc, but the 2nd most important point is reduction in texture usage, which is the most important part for you. This means the fewer faces you have to UV map, the more texture space you can save on your sheet which then goes hand in hand with reduction of tris

Ah ok, that makes sense here, good to know the philosophy behind it

Now the first thing to consider is how much this is actually going to be animated in 3p. Normally we don't actually do much in the terms of 3p animations thing these kinda things unfortunately. When I did my 3p model of the water container IED I included both the container and the pressure pad in the 3p model, but when Chuc came to animate it he removed the pressure pad from the 3p model export and in the 3p animations you only see the guy holding the Water Container and don't see the pressure pad, which means about 1/3 of the 3p textures went to waste.

Never thought of it that way so good to know. I followed all the crits you gave an knocked it down to ~500 tris. Also the FMK-1 and FMK-3 are both their own separate models and the top is attached now, as well as the rope cut off where it was in the handle.



So this seems very reduced with no small faces that you wouldn't notice and seems like it could UV map very easily while keeping the basic shape.

And just to get the idea for UV mapping and skinning this, once this 3p model is UVed then I bake on the normals from the high poly 1p model? and then bake on the diffuse texture from the 1p low poly model?

Yep looks good, only thing I can see is I still think you could remove quite a few edges/loops off the rope still, much higher poly than the rest of the model where it doesn't need to be. Other than that, providing the baking works out it should work really well

3===SPECTER===3 wrote:And just to get the idea for UV mapping and skinning this, once this 3p model is UVed then I bake on the normals from the high poly 1p model? and then bake on the diffuse texture from the 1p low poly model?

Ye, you bake all the the diffuse, spec, AO and normal maps from the 1p model and its textures. No need to do any skinning work at all on it other than touching up the textures after they are baked. Means they match as best as possible with maximum amount of detail as well as least amount of work

Bumpy, any updates here Specter?

I stepped away from this for a bit and now the Holidays have slowed me down I'm gonna try to work on it a bit through Christmas/New Years etc.. after that I should have plenty of time to get this done

Hey guys I'm not dead yet!

Work stalled out on this for a while with other tasks/the holidays but I'm getting back into things. Just unwrapped and packed up the UVs for the 3rd person model.

I packed it into a square to be able to put it on a smaller texture sheet (prob 512x512?) let me know what you think.

Also, photobucket's not letting me upload anything for some reason so I included the image of the UV and the checkered model as attachments, let me know if you can't see them. (and if anyone knows a photobucket fix that'd be helpful too)

Thanks for the patience, I hope to get a lot more done on this soon.

n1, looking good for the most part but think your spacing between your UVs could be a bit better and remember you should rotate cylinders, especially when your baking and not texturing to them a few degrees so there flat sides are in line with the flat side next to them rather than have them pointing into them as that way you increase your spacing, if that makes sense



BTW I find http://imgur.com/ is the best place to upload pics, especially if you get http://www.gethyperdesktop.com

Alright I tidied up the UVs and baked this out as per your tutorial

I baked all the maps out as 1024x1024 but I'm assuming they'll be downsized to 512x512

here's the 1024 sized ones:

diffuse


normal


spec


and here's a side by side of the 1p (on the right) and the 3p.


The 3rd person has the maps downsized to 512x512 in the render btw.

I think it came out well. Maybe a few fix ups on the normal (where the hole in the handle is) but I like the way it looks so far.

Let me know what you think.

Ye looking nice, may even be able to push it down to 256x256 but would have to test that and best to do that in the editor
But ye keep on working in 1024x1024 as downsizing is easy. Also I don't think my tut goes into this but its also best to flatten the maps before downsizing as if you don't it can create small errors which flattening/merging fixes but would keep the .psd saved with all the layers so you have as much flexibility as possible for future editing

One thing it looks like you've missed thou is doing some padding on your textures which is pretty important for 3p models which have a full set of mips and you get quite far away from. Although I call it a "blurred background" in the tut since I didn't know the proper term back then

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1786913']For starters I always like to give a blurred background to my models which really helps with the mipmap filtering. Make a new layer just in front of your background layer on your diffuse or w/e map, turning off all the other map layers and then with the blur tool, make sure the "Sample All Layers" box at the very top is checked and paint around blurring up everything which will then give a really nice background to all your models and more importantly, will "bleed" the texture outside of the main UV which will really help with the mipmaps.


Which then if we zoom right in and turn it on and off, we can see what its really doing


You will want to also do this to the other layers (other than the Alpha layer

But ye other than that, looking awesome. Next will really just be making lods, exporting, animations (will probaly just have to rig it to some existing mine animations for now) and then sounds and final coding