C4 vs caches

[Johny Akbar]

Some allowances for unrealistic behavior should be allowed, like logi dumping crates through a fence, seeing as how infantry can't move the crates, AT ALL, to hide them like you would in real life. Sure its unrealistic to be able to shove a solid crate through a fence, but its also unrealistic that 6 strong soldiers couldn't pick the crates up and relocate them in the first place.

You have to strike a balance where reality and fun form a balance.

If you want to enhance the realism, make dying more risky by extending the respawn timer to a full minute or longer, instead of 15-30 seconds as it is now. This would end the zerg-rush tactics used pretty commonly now. It would make you want to stay and defend, and do a better job of it. Digging in would actually be beneficial.

In my opinion on the c4 issue though, I think the activation timer should be longer (up to 30 seconds from time of planting to time of arming), and I think insurgent sappers should be allowed to disarm c4, possibly using their knives (in my head i imagine them using the knife to pry the c4 off the wall/cut wires... they are insurgents, they are panicking, they aren't EOD trained people with proper tools, so its plausible).

This way it eliminates c4 jeeps because running to the jeep and disarming it would be easy due to engine sound, and it gives us a counter against c4-choppers because we'd have a chance to find the c4 and disarm it before they fly off and detonate it.

On the blufor side of things, it still allows the combat engi to be very valuable when used with correct team-work, or if he has the sneaky-skills like Sam Fisher and can stealth-bomb the cache... thats the insurgents fault for sucking at providing security if the combat engi can just run up, plant it, and then run away without you seeing the guy... all it does is keep him from doing unrealistic things like c4-chopper/jeep, and my personal favorite - The Hail Mary - where you're injured and bleeding out rapidly, and you just wing it, plant the c4, and blow yourself up and the cache because you have nothing to lose.

Combine the doubled respawn timer with the 30 second c4 timer, and you're left with a pretty good defense against that unrealistic **** and you're that much closer to promoting proper teamwork between both sides.

[Truism]

Actually yes, those too.



Game only knows win and lose, other players don't.

That part is true indeed. However, hopefully it will stay that way and not everybody will resort to such winning tactics.

Isn't it funny, most of the time in BF3 i use M16 as the marine (or some otherstandard issue rifle for that factions), just to play along. I never go for the most OP weapon.

Lol, except that the M16 is widely considered to be the most OP weapon.

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

this shits broken, I have gotten so many caches I shouldn't have.

one time on kokan, we were getting pounded. so i said fuck it guys, lets hover over the cache out of view distance and drop a few bricks. ended up getting 3 caches out of view distance, out of a heli.

now even though that is the most extreme abuse of the c4, overall it requires such little precision and breaks certain insurgency maps.

fix it.

[Web_cole]

Would you get rid of all of those? What next, no dropping a patch on someone before you revive them? Would you ban people for looking out of the corner of their screen, or for dropping crates through a fence? Both teams must cap all the flags completely in order and then meet up in the middle of the map for a nice, sporting 18th century line battle?

Actually yes, those too.



Game only knows win and lose, other players don't.

That part is true indeed. However, hopefully it will stay that way and not everybody will resort to such winning tactics.

Honestly re-reading your posts it doesn't sound like you want a game, it sounds like you want to roleplay. I'm not making a judgement, I've "played" roleplaying kind of things before (Island Life, for instance), but it seems really odd to me to try and shoehorn that into what is still a public Team vs Team, competitive, round based FPS. The two don't really go well together, they are not comfortable in the same space.

Traditionally a game is a series of rules, complex or simple within which you strive for a goal. In PR the rules are complex and the possibilities are interesting and diverse. People experiment in games, people strive to find the thing that is most effective, that leads to success and the completion of the games goals in the most optimal way. In this case that is C4ing caches; its works, it works well within the rules of the game, and that's all that matters. Whether it works too well should be left up to the DEVs, but until it is actually patched its still a completely legit way of playing the game.

Roleplaying on the other hand might have rules, but its more about creating interesting stories or experiences than striving towards victory. PR might be good at creating those experiences sometimes, but if that's what you are after its probably kind of inadequate.

[HIROhd]

sometime is no chance for ins

[=HCM= Shwedor]

some time is no chance for ins

Load of ****, they had 0 IEDs surrounding the building and no nade traps covering the walkthroughs. A6 cache is hard to defend but with a few good SKS guys and civis, providing the APC doesn't HE it through the wall, the cache can be defended.

[Arnoldio]

Roleplaying on the other hand might have rules, but its more about creating interesting stories or experiences than striving towards victory. PR might be good at creating those experiences sometimes, but if that's what you are after its probably kind of inadequate.

Youre kinda right. Though i want roleplay-inducing rules... if i can put it that way and still retain the need for win and randomness. Ive seen some of Dslyecxi's vids and he often limits himself, to make it more interesting, despite arma being a game and the objective is to win. Its far more interesting to clear a compound in a hectic fight than just pass by and throw a pack of explosives.

[KiloJules]

Load of ****, they had 0 IEDs surrounding the building and no nade traps covering the walkthroughs. A6 cache is hard to defend but with a few good SKS guys and civis, providing the APC doesn't HE it through the wall, the cache can be defended.

^this.

Also what Johny Akbar said (you seem to me kinda new around here, welcome!)

On the other hand...FLAP_BRB maybe you should just stay there...on the moon that is!

Imo tactics like c4 from heli drop or sacrificing military hardware (e.g. c4-humvee) should earn you a ban - easily fixable problem! This way valid c4 usage would still be possible and it requires like 0 work to implement!

[SGT.Ice]

Youre kinda right. Though i want roleplay-inducing rules... if i can put it that way and still retain the need for win and randomness. Ive seen some of Dslyecxi's vids and he often limits himself, to make it more interesting, despite arma being a game and the objective is to win. Its far more interesting to clear a compound in a hectic fight than just pass by and throw a pack of explosives.

Sounds like a problem. 70% of the community isn't here to roleplay, we're here to put holes in the enemies face.

Imo tactics like c4 from heli drop or sacrificing military hardware (e.g. c4-humvee) should earn you a ban - easily fixable problem! This way valid c4 usage would still be possible and it requires like 0 work to implement!

So ban people instead of patching such things out?

The player base is small as it is.

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

^this.

Also what Johny Akbar said (you seem to me kinda new around here, welcome!)

On the other hand...FLAP_BRB maybe you should just stay there...on the moon that is!

Imo tactics like c4 from heli drop or sacrificing military hardware (e.g. c4-humvee) should earn you a ban - easily fixable problem! This way valid c4 usage would still be possible and it requires like 0 work to implement!

i totally agree, i never said i endorsed the tactic of c4 dropping.

c4 breaks kokan entirely and makes any cache with a desert <15m from it a joke.

sure, you put your ieds down, but when the guy walks up and you blow him up another simply walks up, pulls the kit and blows the cache. i am speaking from experience, i have used c4 in desperate charges so many times often successfully. none of the shit posted here to counter has really stopped me when i have an apc at my back.

[SGT.Ice]

i totally agree, i never said i endorsed the tactic of c4 dropping.

c4 breaks kokan entirely and makes any cache with a desert <15m from it a joke.

sure, you put your ieds down, but when the guy walks up and you blow him up another simply walks up, pulls the kit and blows the cache. i am speaking from experience, i have used c4 in desperate charges so many times often successfully. none of the shit posted here to counter has really stopped me when i have an apc at my back.

That's often times due to the insurgents inability to coordinate a proper defense/ambush. If they'd done it right that APC wouldn't be able to cover. It's not always the game, it's more times than not the people.

[Arnoldio]

Sounds like a problem. 70% of the community isn't here to roleplay, we're here to put holes in the enemies face.

Interesting out-of-*** number there. Why dont you play vanilla though? Or CS:S, Quake3, UT... there are games to blow your enemies away while requiring the skill and 0 roleplay.

[_Fizzco_]

Alas, nowhere i've seen refers to Project Reality as an RPG, yes it is more realistic then most shooters but it's still not an rpg.

[Brainlaag]

Sounds like a problem. 70% of the community isn't here to roleplay, we're here to put holes in the enemies face.

Interestingly enough, 90% suck at it. They are clearly doing something wrong.

[Arnoldio]

Interestingly enough, 90% suck at it. They are clearly doing something wrong.

And this.

Isnt it funny, i play witout those (avaliable) exploits and still get shit done better than the majority of those who only play for kills and win. I must be a fucking genius.

I actually am.

[Murphy]

How about everyone quits arguing and just play the game the way YOU want. I sure as hell am not going to stop C4ing caches because a few forum posters feel it is cheap and are probably pissed off every time it happens to them. At the same time I do believe those on the other side of the discussion will remain against the use of C4 thus limiting their possible solutions by one tiny option, not much of a difference in the end.

Role play might be cool for some people, but I really don't have the desire to become immersed. If I was all about immersion I'd probably still be hooked on RPGs, don't go to a shooting game for immersion there are way too many glaring issues (the other players being the most obvious).

[Arnoldio]

To be honest, i've done the blatant humvee drop once, but i never was on a recieving end of such actions afaik. Sure, i hear people on foot running around setting C4s, and thats actually quite fun, "ERMAHGERD C4 BEERP!", trying to kill the guy before he blows the place apart.

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

How about everyone quits arguing and just play the game the way YOU want. I sure as hell am not going to stop C4ing caches because a few forum posters feel it is cheap and are probably pissed off every time it happens to them.

so its cool for me to glitch into walls, teamswitch to ghost and use wallhacks to gain an unfair advantage because that's how i want to play?

lol

[Arnoldio]

No, glitching and wallhacking is bannable. Teamswitch to ghost is completely ok with the game as its integrated, so you might aswell do it.

[Murphy]

so its cool for me to glitch into walls, teamswitch to ghost and use wallhacks to gain an unfair advantage because that's how i want to play?

lol

Do you honestly think this adds to the convo? Anyone with the ability to think in a logical manner would realize wallhacking/ghosting/no-clip glitching or w.e, is something the admins have to watch for much like aim-botting. Where in my statement do I encourage you to cheat? No I am simply implying that all this whining and bickering serves little purpose other then post padding.

If you feel planting C4 on a poorly defended cache building is akin to wallkhacking you ned to seriously pause and consider what you just implied. It just seems like in case some people forget the C4 charge doesn't level 2 city blocks you have to get it within a good 10-15 feet of the cache. Which means, that indeed the defenders have allowed the blufor team to get UP TO the building with the cache. No need to excuse their bad play, or faul the blufors tactical maneuvering. They were out played and it was over before it began because the defenders can't pay attention people come onto the forums and post a whole useless thread.

Does it need adjusting - probably bring down the explosion radius. Does it need to be removed? Hell no, people just need to keep in mind that any blufor around the cache could likely end up with a c4 finishing it off.