[Brainstorm] Harsher Collaborator RoE Punishments in Insurgency (Per Player)

[VapoMan]

Arresting - Spawntime Incentives

On the flipside of killing outside of the RoE - A player who arrests an insurgent will gain +100 teamwork points and have their spawn time reduced by 120 seconds (to the minimum: whatever the collaborator gets when martyred).

+1

I think I good way of stopping people from killing is to encourage them to arrest instead.

Info about the incident

Some big text on top of everyones screen:
"xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian"

+1

Additionally though, the text could show that intel points have been lost as the result of the civie kill. This will make the feel the player feel even worse for his actions.
eg: "xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian, intel on cache locations has been lost."

[Tim270]

'Bluefor has killed a civi; Bluefor have lost 5 tickets'

[Cassius]

Honestly, civvies should be taken out or made AI controlled. Civillians dont run into mortar fire to martyr themselves.

[Psyrus]

Honestly, civvies should be taken out or made AI controlled. Civillians dont run into mortar fire to martyr themselves.

Nor do blufor mortar the **** indiscriminately out of places with known unarmed civilians... so it's a good balance.

By the way the suggestion forum is here if you're seriously suggesting the removal of civilians, which is most certainly not what this thread is about.

[Gotrol]

'Bluefor has killed a civi; Bluefor have lost 5 tickets'

Lets get radical

"Bluefor has killed a civi; 5 seconds added to all bluefor spawntime".

[Furst]

Nor do blufor mortar the **** indiscriminately out of places with known unarmed civilians... so it's a good balance.

ill try again, but let me start at the beginning of your thread, which in that case is your headline.

"Harsher Collaborator RoE Punishments in Insurgency (Per Player)"

collaborator... well, correct me if im wrong but a collaborator is a person who is actually working together with a faction or group of individuals by providing active support.

the term "civilian" does not fit in this definition, since the only place where we PR players would see those civilians then would be far BEHIND the frontlines doing civilian stuff or at least passive support like healing and reviving, maybe warning by using their binocs.

the daily experience proves that this aint reality in this game and the usual places for those collaborators to be are:

- grouping up in front of at least 2 warriors, acting as a human shield
- on the frontline, sneaking around blufor troops and killing them with stones
- between several warriors, picking up armed kits every now and then to provide active support and lay down the kit again

id say, redefine the RoE within PR and optimize the collaborator kit would be the best solution for both sides.

blufor changes:

- "Info about the incident" sounds nice at all by the way

- if a blufor kills a collaborator regarding all stuff that ive written below the blufor loses 25 intel points. fair enough!

no other changes needed from my point of view, the actual punishments are strict enough

insurgent changes:

- it should be impossible for the collaborator to change his kit as long as he is alive, and if he does he receives the black screen + the usual punishment.

- you have to be in a squad to be able to choose the collaborator kit

-> if you leave the squad, you have to lay down the kit or receive a black screen within 30 seconds

- the collaborator kit should be limited to a maximum of six

- the collaborator has to stay behind the frontline, at least 50 meters behind the next combatant, otherwise he receives the "youre leaving the map" message + the usual punishment.

- if any combatant needs support, he has to fall back and lay down his kit to receive passive support by the collaborators

OR

- the idea of a vehicle or something similar that can be used as point for withdrawal where the combatants can fall back to without laying down their kits and receive active medical support from those collaborators.

- any collaborator moving up offensive against blufor troops automatically loses his status and is free to kill/arrest/punish

conclusion

seems like thats pushing the limits of the game, huh? sounds also like there has to be much teamwork involved to use those kits properly. shouldnt that be the right incentive to think about any changes within this mod?

-> how to get more proper teamwork out of that kit?

[Psyrus]

conclusion

seems like thats pushing the limits of the game, huh? sounds also like there has to be much teamwork involved to use those kits properly. shouldnt that be the right incentive to think about any changes within this mod?

-> how to get more proper teamwork out of that kit?

Nice write up and interesting to say the least, but very off topic for this thread in my opinion. What you're proposing is basically redefining the entire collaborator class, for which I think you should take that excellently written post and use it as the opening post on a suggestion thread .

This thread was made to serve a very specific purpose (as you can see by the very long thread name), so I'd appreciate if we could keep the derailing to a minimum.

Much appreciated!

[Furst]

Much appreciated!

oh! well, i assumed you were collecting pros and cons at all my fault!

[Psyrus]

oh! well, i assumed you were collecting pros and cons at all my fault!

My apologies, I'll try to be more clear in the future Please don't misunderstand though, your ideas are fine I just think they suit their own thread better than this one where they're kind of unrelated to the original purpose of the thread

[Cassius]

Nor do blufor mortar the **** indiscriminately out of places with known unarmed civilians... so it's a good balance.

By the way the suggestion forum is here if you're seriously suggesting the removal of civilians, which is most certainly not what this thread is about.

Well if you are like that, the whole thread should be moved into the suggestions forum then.

[Hitman.2.5]

and how will any of these changes make the gameplay better, people will just come on kill civ and move on to another server or leave and rejoin

[Arc_Shielder]

+1

I think I good way of stopping people from killing is to encourage them to arrest instead.

+1

Additionally though, the text could show that intel points have been lost as the result of the civie kill. This will make the feel the player feel even worse for his actions.
eg: "xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian, intel on cache locations has been lost."

What this guy said. Simple incentives without going overboard.

[Stoickk]

I have long been an advocate of increasing the Intel penalty and gain for OoRoE Collaborator kills and Collaborator Arrests. I have also suggested the public announcement of the act more than once.

Public announcement +1

-25 Intel for OoRoE Collaborator Kill +1

+25 Intel for Collaborator Arrest +1

The current system simply does not enforce the current RoE. Period. If it did, this discussion would not keep coming up. Wounding and killing BluFor personnel for Collaborator kills is hugely exploitable in my opinion. If, for example, killing a Collaborator resulted in a BluFor soldier being killed, a Collaborator could theoretically suicide under the treads of a tank and in effect, snipe the driver out of the vehicle. This has huge potential for exploit, and definitely should not be implemented.

[Spec]

Let's not get into meta-discussions now. It was considered that this thread might be considered a suggestion in itself, but I wanted it to remain here and open for discussion, so please don't ruin that with discussing the point of the thread or individual posts. Simply move on. If you believe a post is off topic, report it and we'll take care of it.

[Psyrus]

Kitlock & Punishments

+1

I personally am quite a big fan of a really harsh penalty structure as I enjoy the collaborator class and also enjoy playing as blufor, taking pride in hardly ever killing civs outside of the RoE, making special effort to avoid it (or always have a specialist around so he can shotgun them in the face ).

I'm trying to think of something that hasn't been said yet that isn't impossible with the engine... all the obvious solutions might've already been stated...

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Bump much?

[40mmrain]

protip: enemy spotters, unarmed or not are free game as per ROE in afghanistan at least, if anyone wishes to talk about realism.

[Arab]

Collaborators/Civi's killed by mortars are not covered by ROE

When you are firing mortars in a position that has alot of enemies, there will be medics who will try to heal the players. Civillians hanging around them would be suspected of being a Collaborator, and in this case of gathering intelligence, if someone wants to unbalance the game by running into mortars, then there will be no penalty to both sides, and intelligence points are actually counted by collaborators killed by mortars. No Matyrs from killed by mortars, no ROE punishments, but some intelligence points.

The problem with that is that if the Blueforce gets alot of intelligence points, then it will be balanced towards the blueforce. So maybe lowering the intelligence points gathered from that class.

This is because the mortar is designed to kill a target indiscrimitaly of whether it is friendlies or not. If there's a spotted position of insurgents, you mortar it.

Though you got situations in real life where insurgents put collaborators (Who are Civillians unless proven to be collaborators) as body-shields, in my opinion with mortar rounds it won't work. I doubt those situations exist where the civilians are used as body shields in an insurgent cache.